Bas je extra snimak. 
   Lepo me je nasmejao,a ipak nosi dosta,mozda nejasnih,ali vrednih pouka... Nisam bas siguran da sam ga shvatio kako treba,ali svejedno je dobar materijal kakvog god verskog (ne)opredeljenja neko bio. 



   Ma kakvi,covek kada veruje,on u sebi gaji odredjena osecanja i ubedjenja,najcesci je slucaj u nesto nedokazivo i neopipivo,dok je nada iskljucivo osecaj koji covek gaji dok iscekuje nesto realno. Vera se gaji duhovno i odrzava,dok nada predstavlja oblik nestrpljenja,grublje receno. Tesko se mogu poistovetiti ova dva pojma...

Dobro pitanje. Nada je verovanje u pozitivan ishod cak i onda kada imamo dokaze da su izgledi za tako nesto gotovo nikakvi. Trudicu su da pazljivije biram reci kada pisem o ovoj osteljivoj temi. Hvala sto si mi skrenuo paznju na to... 

Inace, ja bas planiram da se ozbiljnije pozabavim ovom temom, ni manje ni vise, nego osnivanjem NVO ciji ce osnovni cilj biti promovisanje sekularnih vrednosti u drustvu...pa ako je neko zainteresovan... 

Definisi sekularne vrednosti.
Nema na cemu 

Ma kakvi,covek kada veruje,on u sebi gaji odredjena osecanja i ubedjenja,najcesci je slucaj u nesto nedokazivo i neopipivo,dok je nada iskljucivo osecaj koji covek gaji dok iscekuje nesto realno. Vera se gaji duhovno i odrzava,dok nada predstavlja oblik nestrpljenja,grublje receno. Tesko se mogu poistovetiti ova dva pojma.
Pazi ovako
Vera se ne zasniva na logici.
Nada se ne zasniva na logici.
U tome je poenta.  Nada je u sklopu vere, jer se vernici nadaju u....

  Odlično.  
I sviđa mi se što je autor tačno naveo izvor iz Biblije kad se spominje taj deo na snimku.

Samo... za ubuduće, s obzirom da si nov, nauči kako se postavlja YouTube snimak i u međuvremenu pročitaj pravilnik. 
Welcome aboard

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Koji deo tačno. 

Pazi, poenta snimka kako je i sam autor naveo je:

"Stalno slušamo o mnogim neverovatnim stvarima koje je Isus iz Nazareta naime uradio, ali niko nikada se ne zapita šta je sa svim onim stvarima koje je mogao da uradi, s obzirom da je omnipotentan, a nije jer nije ga nije zanimalo ili je mislio da nije toliko značajno. Znate već, stvari kao što su... smanjivanje ljudske mizerije i patnje... tako neke stvari."

"Kad bi kojim slučajem čuda zabeležena u biblija zaista bila tačna činjenica, i da su se stvarno dogodila... to onda samo pokazuje da je Jehova/Isus mnogo zlobniji i okrutniji nego što smo videli u starom zavetu, i to nam nešto govori. Ako čuda stvarno nekako dokazuju da je Isus bio bog u ljudskoj formi ali jedino čime se zanimao je da pretvara vodu u vino i da izleči nekoliko stotina ili nekoliko hiljada ljudi sa svojom magičnom pljuvačkom, e onda stvarno koje je uopšte dobro od takovg boga? Pomislite samo šta bi poseta jednog omnipotentnog božanstva mogla sve da uradi... ali u ovom slučaju, očigledno je izbabrala da ne uradi!

I ovo je namenjeno da bude glavna božja reklama za njegovo postojanje. Hodanje po vodi ispred par njegovih ortaka u korist miliona i miliona ljudi koji ukoliko ne poveruju u njegovo božanstvo i ne predaju mu kontrolu njihovih duša.... goreće u agoniji zauvek.

People - DOES THIS FUCKING RELIGION MAKE ANY SENSE AT ALL?????"

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Samo za Ravena 




   1. 1) Which of the following is the most compelling evidence for the existence of an intelligent and loving Designer?

         1. A Caribbean sunset
         2. The screams of a baby seal as it is torn apart by a shark
         3. The first time your perfect new baby smiles at you
         4. The speed of the Ebola virus converting an African child's organs into liquid

   2. A deeply devout Catholic couple has just returned from their fiftieth anniversary celebration, when suddenly the husband falls to the ground, clutching his chest. What is the most productive action for the wife to take?

         1. Call 911
         2. Put him in the car and race to the hospital herself
         3. Administer CPR
         4. Fall on her knees and pray to the Lord to spare his life

   3. You are a product tester and frequently bring your work home. Yesterday, while dressed in a flame resistant suit (up to 3,000 degrees) and carrying the latest model fire extinguisher, you discover your neighbor's house is on fire. As the flames quickly spread, you stand and watch your neighbor's new baby burn to death. Which of the following best describes your behavior?

         1. All-powerful
         2. All-knowing
         3. All-loving
         4. Mysterious

   4. One day while jogging in the park, you see a maniac with a butcher knife about to attack a six-year old girl. Which would be the most morally proper action to take?

         1. Grab the nearest rock and beat off the attacker
         2. Call the police on your cell phone
         3. Yell "POLICE!" and run toward the attacker in a threatening manner
         4. Calmly walk away, because God works in mysterious ways, and what appears "evil" to our finite human mind, may in fact be part of a vaster plan in God's infinite mind, so it's best not to interfere

   5. You are the incarnated Son of the all-powerful and all-loving Creator of the universe. What would be a good way to demonstrate your compassion and power?

         1. Cure cancer forever
         2. Cause all the earth's deserts to bloom with food crops
         3. Unite the world with a common language and an end to poverty
         4. Conjure up a jug of wine and follow it up by walking on water

   6. Since we can never "know" whether or not a God exists - it is fundamentally a matter of "faith" - it's best to be a believer since you have nothing to lose, but everything to lose if your disbelief is incorrect. Keeping in mind that the fate of your soul depends on the right choice, in which God should you place your belief? For extra credit, include a brief essay justifying your choice, along with the reasons why you reject the other three.

         1. Zeus
         2. Quetzalcoatl
         3. Vishnu
         4. The Holy Trinity

      (*Note: Choice D assumes you were born around 400 A.D. or later, after the invention of the Trinity)

   7. You are the Creator of the universe. Your chosen people are a tribe of nomadic herdsmen, presently in bondage on one of the millions of your planets. Their ruler is being quite obstinate. Keeping in mind that you possess not only infinite power but also infinite love, your best course of action would be to:

         1. Cause the ruler to drop dead of a heart attack
         2. Cause the ruler to fall off a cliff
         3. Visit the ruler in a dream and persuade him to let your people go
         4. Slaughter a great number of innocent babies who had nothing to do with the ruler's policies

   8. You are a Starfleet Federation explorer in the process of cataloging two newly discovered planets. The majority of the inhabitants of each planet believe in a deity, but they are two different deities. Deity "X" is said to be not only all-powerful, all-loving, and all-knowing, but the designer of a marvelously complex and ordered world. Deity "Y" is said to be indifferent, absent, unconcerned with the affairs of his planet, and some even say evil. Which god rules over which planet?

      Planet A: Has apparently achieved a state of advanced benign equilibrium in which there are no viruses or diseases, and only a very small number of natural disasters, which, when they do strike, always eliminate only the sinful and evil. The inhabitants, both plant and animal, have learned to maintain their existence through photosynthesis, and thus do not have to kill and eat each other in order to survive. There are no "birth defects;" every inhabitant comes into existence perfectly formed and equipped for a long and productive life.
      Deity X_____
      Deity Y_____

      Planet B: Adorned with many examples of beauty and order, it is also constantly beset by hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunamis, floods, volcanoes, lightning bolts, viruses, disfiguring diseases, parasites, leeches, flies, crop-destroying pests and many other phenomena which afflict both the innocent and the evil. Every life form on the planet can only sustain its existence through the destruction and consumption of other life forms. Some of the inhabitants are born with a crippling condition called a "birth defect", which condemns them to living extremely limited, short, or painful lives.
      Deity X_____
      Deity Y_____

   9. What is the number of children born without arms or legs that have been miraculously restored by a visit to the shrine at Lourdes, France?

         1. Too many to count
         2. Over 1,000
         3. Several dozen
         4. Zero, but only because their faith was not strong enough

  10. As we all know, there is only one true religion. What is the one true religion in each of the following circumstances?

         1. You are born in Karnak in 3000 B.C.
         2. You are born in Bombay in 300 B.C.
         3. You are born in Baghdad in 900 A.D.
         4. You are born in Mexico City in 1956 A.D.

  11. Although you are new at golf, you have just hit a beautiful 200-yard drive and your ball has landed on a blade of grass near the cup at Hole 3. The green contains ten million blades of grass. The odds of your ball landing on that blade of grass are 10,000,000 to one against, too improbable to have happened by mere chance. What's the explanation?

         1. The wind guided it
         2. Your muscles guided it
         3. There is no need for an explanation
         4. You consciously designed your shot to land on that particular blade

  12. Which of the following is most likely to be true, and why?

         1. Romulus was the son of God, born to a mortal human virgin
         2. Dionysus turned water into wine
         3. Apollonius of Tyana raised a girl from the dead
         4. Jesus Christ was the son of God, born to a mortal virgin, turned water into wine, and raised a man from the dead

  13. Conceding that torture is permissible under certain conditions, which of the following would be the best justification?

         1. Your prisoner is the only one who knows the date and time of an assassination attempt on the Pope
         2. Your prisoner is the only one who knows where a nuclear device has been planted in Washington, D.C.
         3. Your prisoner is the only one who knows where a vial of nerve gas has been placed in the London water supply system
         4. Your prisoner has announced that the earth revolves around the sun

  14. We know that Christianity is true because the Gospel writers, inspired by God who can make no error, recorded the founding events. For example, on the first Easter morning, the visitors to the tomb were greeted by which of the following:

         1. A young man (Mark 16:5)
         2. No, no, it was no man, it was an angel (Matthew 28:2-5)
         3. You're both wrong, it was two men (Luke 24:4)
         4. Damn it, there was nobody there (John 20:1-2)

  15. According to inerrant Scripture, the Savior prayed alone in the garden while the three disciples who accompanied him had fallen asleep. How did the gospel writer know the words of that prayer?

         1. Jesus left them written down under a rock
         2. They were recorded on a primitive taping device
         3. The gospel writer was psychic
         4. The three disciples were later hypnotized and asked to recall the prayer

  16. According to at least one sainted church father, one of the pleasures of the saved will be to behold the agony of the damned. What would be the best time of day in heaven for a mother to behold the agony of her only son?

         1. Early in the morning before it gets too crowded
         2. Mid-day when she can compare notes and share the celebration with other mothers
         3. Late at night when she can enjoy the flames in starker contrast

  17. In the Judeo-Christian tradition, we always look to the Bible as a guide. In this example, your teenage son has returned home from the prom intoxicated. The Bible's instruction is:

         1. Sit him down for a heart to heart talk
         2. Enroll him in AA
         3. Take away his driving privilege for one month
         4. Smash his head in with rocks

  18. In this example, your son-in-law, returned from his honeymoon, has just told you he suspects your daughter was not a virgin on their wedding night. Wishing to abide by God's holy rules as laid out in the Bible, you should:

         1. Ask him if he was a virgin before you do anything
         2. Advise him to forgive her
         3. Talk to your daughter
         4. Go find those rocks

  19. You are eating lunch at a crowded fast food restaurant, occupied mostly by children, when suddenly a gunman bursts in, screams "Do not question or test me," and sprays the room with bullets. Ten people are killed instantly, many more grievously wounded, but somehow you escape unharmed. His ammunition expended, the gunman collapses to the floor. What should you do?

         1. Call the police and wait for them to arrive
         2. Call the police and leave
         3. Risk death by asking the gunman why he did it, even though he told you not to
         4. Fall on your knees and give thanks and praise to the gunman for sparing your life

  20. Why did God show his backside to Moses, as described in Holy Scripture, Ex.33:23?

         1. He invented everything, and this was simply the first mooning
         2. He was really ticked off when Moses dropped the tablets
         3. He was piqued, having just discovered His almighty powers were useless against chariots of iron (Judges I:19)
         4. Moses was too serious and needed to lighten up a little

  21. Jesus was God, and God knows all things, including all the medical knowledge that will ever be known. Why did Jesus blame demons for the case of epilepsy he cured?

         1. He was suffering from a temporary case of "brain freeze"
         2. The Aramaic word for "demon" is the same as the word for "cranial malfunction"
         3. Neurology was not his specialty
         4. In first-century Palestine, demons really did cause epilepsy. This affliction only began to be caused by electrochemical brain activity after about 1850 A.D.

  22. This morning's paper carries a story about a suburban father who became so enraged with his disobedient children that he carried them both to the backyard pool where he drowned them, along with their puppy, their kitten, and their hamster. How should this father be treated?

         1. He should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law
         2. He should be banished from the town
         3. He should be lynched to save the taxpayers' money
         4. The townspeople should gather together to sing hymns of praise to him

  23. This morning I started my day by insulting my mother in public, then punched out my father, my brother, and my sister. Then I gathered up all my clothes, sold them to a second-hand store, and with the proceeds bought a used Uzi and 50 rounds of ammunition. Next, I went down to the animal shelter and injected all the dogs with a drug that caused them to go insane and dive into the nearby canal where they all drowned. By this time I was hungry, so I went over to my neighbor's apple orchard and burned it down, because I wanted an orange and there weren't any. On the way home, I stopped at the local steel mill to discuss my philosophy of life with some of the guys. They laughed at me and said to stow it, so I tossed them all into the blast furnace. That night I discovered my son looking at a copy of Playboy. Concerned for his future welfare, I cut off his right hand. What historical character did my activities today most resemble?

         1. Genghis Khan
         2. Charles Manson
         3. Adolph Hitler
         4. Jesus Christ

  24. Down through the ages, who has been most responsible for the medical discoveries that have relieved untold amounts of suffering and pain, and extended the length of that most sacred of creations, human life?

         1. Medical doctors
         2. Research biologists
         3. Chemists
         4. The Catholic Church

  25. A great sadness has come into your life which you feel you cannot bear. A friend informs you of a free counseling service which has never failed to aid and comfort many others. You call the counselor; the phone rings and rings with no answer; you finally hang up. What is the most likely explanation?

         1. The counselor is sitting by the phone but not answering in order to test your faith in him
         2. The counselor always stands ready to hear your pleas for help, but sometimes the answer is "no"
         3. The counselor will not answer because he wants you to profit by the spiritual strength that only comes through suffering
         4. The counselor is not home

ESSAY QUESTION

While it is true that there have been and still are many different gods and many different religions, they are really just the various names by which various cultures approach the same God. Explain how and why each of the following is the same God:

    * Quetzalcoatl, who wants you to skin a young virgin alive, then put on the skin and dance;
    * Shiva, who wants you to pray over his penis;
    * Allah, who wants you to fly airliners into buildings;
    * Catholic God; who speaks directly through the Pope;
    * Baptist God, who most definitely does not;
    * Jesus, who wants you to castrate yourself to ensure arrival in heaven
    * Jehovah, who any day now, is going to kill everyone on the earth except for his Witnesses

 

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   Meni i dalje ne deluje tako... Mozda se ne zasnivaju na logici,ali ipak to ne predstavlja nadu kao podvrstu vere. Nada je neka vrsta "predsrece",da se laicki izrazim (drugacije ne znam   ). Vernici se nadaju,da,ali opet to ne znaci nista. Nada nije verovanje,vec bas nadanje (ne mogu drugi izraz da smislim) da ce se nesto dogoditi,nesto sto ce nam doneti srecu. Dok se verovanje zasniva na tvz. "dokazima",nada nema ama bas nikakvu osnovu i predstavlja...nadanje!
   Iskreno,nemam pojma kako da pojasnim svoje misli,ali tesko da je nada oblik vere... Mozda i jeste...

Sve je to pitanje ličnog doživljaja Boga i iskustva sa Bogom.
Na primer, vaskrsli Lazar nije imao ovakav doživljaj Hrista Isusa kakav ima autor ovog teksta.
A mogao je reći Gospodu svome: "Zašto si me vratio u ovaj svet da se mučim i opet na kraju,
umrem na manje ili više bolan način?" Ali on to niej uradio jer je imao - drugačiji doživljaj sa Bogom,
veoma drugačiji od onoga koji mi imamo ili zamišljamo.

Da, to jeste izbor naše slobodne volje:
1) da zamišljamo šta bi sve mi uradili na Njegovom mestu (i sa Njegovim Moćima) i
2) da iskustveno stičemo saznanje šta jeste radio Hristos Isus i šta sve radi danas Duh Sveti.

Hodanje po vodi je bilo - hod prečicom da bi brže stigao do onih koje voli.
A i što se tiče 'mnogoljudnog gorenja u agoniji' - i tu nama naša mašta više smeta nego
što nam pomaže. Jer, da podsetim - mi ovde pišemo o Osobi koja je neprijatelje Svoje
volela (emotivno, verbalno i delotvorno volela) a mi premda nismo takvi (već naprotiv - osvetoljubivi)
- 'znamo' Ko i Kakav je On! Naša perspektiva posmatranja nam ne pomaže da imamo
'pravu sliku' o Bogo-čoveku.

Gde ti nalazis ove stvari 

Tako je matori, a svako verovanje je laz/obmana/neistina, posto je samo istina (ono sto postoji)- istina

"Neverovati u bilo kakvog boga" nije isto sto i nemati (definisan) stav po pitanju postojanja bilo kakvog boga. Prva definicija je itekako eksplicitan ateizam, dok je druga definicija bliza agnosticizmu nego ateizmu. Teista veruje u postojanje boga, ateista ne veruje, agnostik nema eksplicitan stav...

Nauka je stvar trenutka.
Razum se lako pomuti.

I sta ostaje...