Nemci su bili mega liberalni dok im nevakcinisani nisu zakucali na vrata...

Sada su obrnuli plocu:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40056680

Kazna od 2,500 evra za roditelje koji ne vakcinisu ili ne konsultuju svog lekara po pitanju vakcinacije, uz poziv da se zakoni poostre.

Takodje, navodi se da je i u Italiji obavezna vakcinacija za 12 bolesti, posebno sto je prosle godine zabelezeno 3x vise slucajeva obolelih od malih boginja.

Примјер братске, слободне Кубе.

When a group of doctors and professors from Nova Scotia took a trip to Cuba in 2006 to study how the country managed infectious diseases, they were struck by how knowledgeable the average person was about vaccines, and decided to conduct an informal experiment: Quiz random passersby on the streets of Havana about their basic knowledge of their country’s vaccine safety program (the process by which vaccines are created and made safe) and their personal immunization records.

“Without fail, everyone knew exactly what immunizations they already had, the scientific evidence behind them, and at what ages they needed to be updated,” says John Kirk, professor of Spanish and Latin American studies at Dalhousie University, whose research focuses on Cuba’s health care system.  The research team also asked the Cubans their opinion on anti-vaccine movements in countries such as Canada and the U.S. “They were dumbfounded. They thought we were joking,” Kirk recalls. “I guarantee you won’t meet a single person there who has doubted vaccines for a moment. For Cubans, vaccines aren’t only seen as a basic human right, but also as an obligation.”

Upon their return, Kirk and his colleagues wrote an article for the Canadian Journal of Infectious Diseases, in which they conclude Canada can learn a great deal from the Cuban approaches to vaccinations and health care.

The numbers say it best. According to the World Health Organization (WHO)’s 2014 global summary on vaccine-preventable diseases and academic studies, Cuba has not had a single reported case of measles since 1993, nor rubella since 1989. Five cases of mumps have been reported since 2000; the last one was in 2010. And pertussis hasn’t been reported since 1994. In contrast, Canada has had 2,203 cases of measles, at least 1,529 cases of mumps, and 21,292 cases of pertussis reported since 1990.

At a time when new cases of preventable diseases are regularly cropping up and a loud–albeit small–contingent of “anti-vaxxers” keeps getting louder, it’s a good time to figure out how to change those numbers.

    Related reading: The real vaccine scandal

Granted, Cuba’s population is around one-third the size of Canada’s, but Dr. Noni MacDonald, professor of paediatrics at Dalhousie University and consultant to the WHO’s committee on vaccine safety, who went on the research trips with Kirk, says one of the most innovative aspects of its public health system is its emphasis on vaccine education from an early age–something that’s lacking in Canada. From the time kids start school through to graduation, vaccination is consistently incorporated into courses and class discussions.

“Our schools need to be teaching about vaccines and immunizations and their importance to our health, starting in primary school,” says MacDonald. “I don’t want a course in vaccinology. I want the topic woven into the fabric of our curricula: into science, history and health.” This might include discussing how military campaigns throughout history were brought down because of vaccine-preventable diseases or the outbreak of smallpox during the founding of Canada. She says this would be an effective way to prevent anti-vaccine ideology from makings its way into society in the future.

Kirk attributes Cuba’s immunization successes to the higher number of doctors in the country and their deep relationships with community groups and the government. There is approximately one doctor for every 200 Cubans, compared to one doctor for every 476 Canadians. Cuba’s Family Doctor and Nurse program, which started in 1984, lies at the heart of the country’s health care system. Their mandate is geared toward preventive–instead of curative–medicine, as they cannot afford to treat illnesses as they come up. The program makes a point of meeting with patients twice a year and keeping meticulous immunization records. They are directly involved with education campaigns in schools, and students get a checkup every month. Kirk says this closeness with medical staff fosters trust and builds personal relationships between doctors and patients.

Just as important as the primary care providers, Cuba’s community groups carry out directives from health authorities and follow up on vaccine schedules. For example, the Committees to Defend the Revolution and the Federation of Cuban Women, established in 1960 after the revolution, go into neighbourhoods on a regular basis to discuss legislation and government policies, and share news about personal and public health. Every year, the Federation of Cuban Women tracks down every baby to ensure he or she has been immunized.

MacDonald says it’s unlikely such enforcement of immunizations would ever occur in Canada, but it shows the potential for community groups to shoulder some responsibility for public health outcomes and awareness, especially when Canada does not have a national vaccine registry. “Even if vaccines weren’t mandatory, Cubans would do it anyway,” she says. “Because they’ve been taught how to do it [and] they’ve been asked to participate in it, they’ve been asked to take pride in doing it.”

For Eve Dubé, a medical anthropologist at Laval University studying vaccination ethics, Canada is a world leader in health services, but Health Canada could take a page from the Cubans on vaccine awareness. She is co-authoring a study on the vaccine choices of pregnant women in Canada, most of whom are choosing to vaccinate their children, but aren’t fully confident in their choice–meaning they might change their minds as their children grow older. “What we see is that these mothers–whether they decide to vaccinate or not–are still unsure whether they’ve made the right decision,” she says. “They are trusting friends, family members, even themselves, more than health care professionals.” Dubé says it’s not enough for parents to simply agree to get their children vaccinated; they need deeper understanding in order to prevent them from changing their minds or forgetting to keep immunizations up-to-date.

At home, Kirk says he has tried to get the province of Nova Scotia to consider implementing some aspects of the Cuban model, such as mandatory courses on health, but he isn’t hopeful this will happen any time soon. A government minister told him the optics of doing so wouldn’t be so great. “He wondered how we, a province in a wealthy, developed country, could learn from a rinky-dinky communist country. But we need to do something soon. We’ve been looking at it through the wrong end of the telescope for too long and we’re paying the price.”

http://www.macleans.ca/society/health/what-cuba-can-teach-canada-about-vaccines/

Obavezna ali ne i prisilna. Plus, sfrj je imala suverenitet nad farmacijom i zdravstvom.

I to kaze osoba koja je za prislnu vakcinaciju : ) Neverovatno.
Stepen sigurnosti koji se dobija na samo jedan nacin i nikako drugacije.
Ne, ali te on ne prisiljava da ih ugradis. Kada bi te prisljavao, onda bi imao i obavezu da garantuje, pa ako zakaze da popase tuzbu i dozivotno izdrava ostecenog. Kod prisline vakcinacije toga nema.

Ljudski organizam nikako nisu "sitne razlike". Pola litra rakije nekog alkoholise, a nekog ubije.


Gde sam napisao da je to problem? Ovde se radi o preuzimanju nauke i struke od strane multinac. korporacija.

Tacno, to je tako.
Ali ti ne kapiraš da je autoritet korumpiran i los. To sto je Neko strucnjak u oblasti kojom se bavi, ne znaci da je nezavistan, objektivan, pravedan i sl.

Pa, problem je taј, što, na primer, po zakonu vakcinaciju može indukovati i sprovoditi doktor medicine, odnosno lekar opšte prakse i tada, nekim čudom, za poznavanje vakcina i vakcinacije nisu potrebna nikakva tajna znanja, krštenica, izvod iz matične knjige rođenih, urino kultura i poznavanje svojih predaka 7 generacija u nazad...

Ne, već da pričamo o vrlo problematičnoj i nepoznatoj temi, gde nema konsenzusa, a koja se nameće kao nešto što je skoro kao ispijanje čaše vode.

To su gluposti i laži sumanutih ludaka. U Nemačkoj vakcinacija nije obavezna ali postoji obaveza konsultacije sa lekarom. Angela Merkel je tim povodom rekla da nema reči o bilo kakvoj obavezi i prisili:
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2017/10/germanys-angela-merkel-against-compulsory-vaccinations-3566569.html

p.s.
Vreme kada nije bilo korporativnog ludila, propagande o masovnom umiranju i lesevima po ulicama od jebenih malih boginja i bljuca od novina, vreme strucnjaka i naucnika, a ne zaposlenih u farmako gigantima:

Ја сам апсолутно против присиле. Али сам зато да установе, било то школе или вртићи имају право на критеријуме за упис и њихово право је да имају и вакцинацију као услов.

Sve skole ili samo neke? Ako si za sve, onda si za prisilu. Osnovna skola je obavezna ali ako ne vakcinises ne mozes je upisati, hmm...najperfidnija, jajarska prisila, tipicno za ova "moderna vremena".

Па за државне школе критеријуме одређује држава, за приватне мислим да би се то могло оставити самој школи да одлучи.

prisilna u slucaju da se nadje neko bi zaboravio na deo o obaveznosti, sfrj je na papiru imala mnogo sloboda i prava pa bi oni koji bi odlucili da ta prava koriste brzo shvatili da to nije bas tako kako je receno. Po cemu srbija nema suverenitet nad farmacijom i zdravstvom?



Ja sam za vakcinaciju, ne izmisljaj ono sto nije receno.



To sto ti nazivas prisilno ne postoji jer niko ne otima decu i odvodi ih na vakcinaciju. imas mogucnost da odbijes i snosis posledice isto kao sto imas mogucnost da ubijes coveka i snosis posledice u vidu zatvorske kazne ili mogucnost da ne zavrsis srednju skolu i snosis posledice da ti se onemoguci upis na fakultet. sloboda izbora dolazi sa cenom.



a na primer pola casice ne ubije nikog vec nekog malo omami a nekom ne bude nista.



i? problema ne bi bilo da su jednonacionalne?



pausalne ocene. koji autoritet? korumpiran na osnovu kojih dokaza?



vakcinisanje je mehanicka radnja koja ne zahteva nobelovu nagradu. napraviti racunarski program je mnogo teze od koristenja istog.



konzenzus oko cega tacno?

Treba ukinuti prisilne preglede trudnica, prisilne preglede dece sto kod pedijatra sto kod stomatologa, prisilne preglede u vrticima jer suga je kul, prisilno dibjanje drzavljanstva necu bre da budem Srbin  duvajte ga.
Prisilno me teraju svake godine da menjam letnje gume, ma jajare jedne hocu da vozim po snegu sa letnjim...ima sare cirka 2mm. Jos me prisilili da registrujem pa jos mora tehnicki, alo bre rodjaci vozim golfa to se ne kvari kakvi tehnicki koji moj.
Jos me prislili da placam RTS...majku Vam imperijalisticku necu bre. Okupacija. Hocemo slobodu.
I tako to, mislim sve sto kazu to nije istina.

uzmi casove engleskog jezika posto veze nemas.
kazna je ako ne uzmu kosultacije. vakcinacija je i dalje stvar izbora. pro tom NEVAKCINISANA DECA SLOBODNO IDU U DRZAVNE VRTICE I SKOLE.
samo je aerodrom u frankfurtu prosle godine imao 55 miliona putnika vise nego beogradski (a gde su ostali) pa se nemci ne znoje. ali to je zemlja koja je naucila svoje lekcije iz iskustva sa fasizmom.
bitno je da mile coban zna bolje od nemacke drzave. bodi tudju decu stakojikurackojepickematerine nece njegovi roditelji da vakcinisu. bo di!!!

Ne pamtim slucaj d aje nekom preceno ili da se pravio problem u slucaju nevakcinacije, a bilo je takvih slucajeva dobar broj.
Iz mnogo razloga. Farmako industrija iz vana sponzorise seminare lekara, zatim, institucije, kao Torlak, su razbijene (do sredine 80-ih je veliki broj drzava na zapadu bio konzument nase farmacije), da bi danas dosli u situaciju da isti samo prepakuje medikamente stranih proizvodjaca. Sponzorisanje katedri na fakultetima od strane privatnih korporacija, presija na politicare da izglasaju zakone koji idu na ruku korporacijama.

I ja sam za vakcinaciju. Pitanje je samo cime, sa koliko, kada i cijim vakcinama.

Da li znas da je institucija, kao sto je zastitinik gradjana, na cijem je celu bio Sasa Jankovic, javn podrzao oduzimanje dece u slucaju vakcinacije. U Srbiji je skorpo bio slucaj da je otac osudjen na kaznu zatvora, pa su mu ljudi skupili pare da bi kaznu platio. Medjutim, oni ne odustaju, sude mu i dalje i prete zatvorom, a kazne se gomilaju. Mislis da ce to tako moci doveka?
Posledice cega? Menjas teze. Da, snosim posledice u vidu zabrane skolovanja, placanja kazni, zatvora i sl. Ako to nije vid prisile, ne znam sta jeste. Alo, vakcinises zdravo dete, jer mastate da ce se sutra razboleti, a nema garancija za to. Ko snosi posledice u slucaju nezeljenih efekata vakcinacije? Po vazecim pravilima-niko, sto je neverovatno i pravni presedan.
Nije sija, nego vrat. Vidi, ti mozes da legaziujes bukvalno bilo sta, dizaci u skupstini dignu ruke i to je to, ali to ne znaci da je to legitimno. Ubistvo je najteze krivicno delo i kakve veze ima sa nevakcinisanjem dece?
Cekaj, radis sve sto je moguce, osim ciste fizicke prisile i ubacivanja zrtava u crni kombi na sred ulice, da bi vakcinisao decu i maltretirao roditelje, ali to nije prisila, to je sta?
 
Da, tako je. Sam si potvrdio ono sto sam napisao da je sve individualno.
Ne, problem je u tome sto vi ne vidite siru sliku, vi ste fiksirali vakcine, kao pas kada vidi macku, i sada da se ubrizgavaju govna putem sprica, fanatici bi rekli "da, ali to je vakcina!". Multinacionalne krporacije su globalisticke strukture, koje imaju za cilj preuzimanje suverenosti citavih naroda i monopolizaciju svetskih trzista (u ovom slucaju lekova). One se ne bave naukom, vec sprovodjenjem svojih interesa.
Danas su autoritet u oblasti farmacije tzv. "nauka bazirana na dokazima", sto vrlo lepo i primamljivo zvuci. Medjutim, razvojem svojih patenata, iste strukure proizvode i testiraju svoje patente, sto je u najmanju ruku sukob interesa, prema tome, nauka je okupirana i razvija se prema potrebi onih koji su je okupirali.
Naucnik koji radi u korporaciji prvo radi za korpporaciju, a onda sve ostalo.

Potpuno sulude tvrdnje. Vakcina se primenjuje na milijarde razlicitih organizama, pa potom svaki organizam ima svoj "zapis", sto dovodi do jos vecih kombinacija brojevima. Vakcina se pravi za "najbolji scenario", odnosno za organizam koji najbolje reaguje, a to se desava jednom u 100 miliona.
Oko toga sta je, kada treba, od cega je, sa koliko, cime, kada je vakcinacija u pitanju.
Vi puno citate teoriju, potpuno ste otudjeni od realnosti.
Kakve to veze ima sa vakcinisanjem svega sto mrda, hoda, leti, spava, seta, trci?
Ako ti mislis da se to radi zbog tvoje sigurnosti, onda si vrhunski, uzoran graDZanin.
Jos da objasnis kako intervencija koja moze i ima negativne posledice, kao sto je vakcinacija, za koju niko ne preuzima odgovornost, vezujes sa zamenom guma i kako je to promena guma, kao radnja problematicna za populaciju?

p.s. Da li postoji neko ko misli da je ovo normalno?