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Чувајте Љубав !

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ateisti pokusavaju da uradi jednu nemogucu stvar..tj.da ospore boga..

covjek koji zivi u vremenu ne moze sebi predstaviti onog koji zivi iznad vremena,kao sto

dijete u utrobi majke ne moze zamisliti njeno lice...




Наука ће временом откривати све разноврсније облике постојања простора и времена које сада само можемо да наслућујемо. Ако је Бог изнад свега тога  што  не знамо, логично је да земаљским схватаљем ствари никада нећемо моћи предочити себи Бога...
« Poslednja izmena: 21. Mar 2009, 14:01:09 od Magic Master »
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Svakodnevni prolaznik


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ateizam je u stvari dijelom materijalizam-u kojemu se tvrdi da nema nista na svijetu duhovno...vjerovanje u ono sto se vidi i sto se cuje...ne sto se osjeca..

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ateizam je u stvari dijelom materijalizam-u kojemu se tvrdi da nema nista na svijetu duhovno...vjerovanje u ono sto se vidi i sto se cuje...ne sto se osjeca..

Demanti u recenici - ljubav nije materijalna, vec samo osecanja, i mozes samo da verujes da te neko ko kaze da te voli stvarno i voli... banalizovano ali obara teoriju  Smile
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Ajde evo nakon što sam postavio neka pitanja za ateiste, pa pošto sam dobio neke odgovore koji nisu ni imali veze sa pitanjima, uzeo sam i pobrisao moje poslednje postove na ovoj temi.

Pošto me mrzi da vam prevodim, postaviću jedan tekst.

Creation

The overwhelming consensus of science is that the entire cosmos (including space and time) came into existence at a finite point in the past.  All of our observations, equations, and physical laws testify to a point of origin for this universe.
In light of the troubling evidence for a beginning, and that we may not even be able to find a natural cause in principle, what explanation is given to the questions, "Why is there something rather than nothing?" and "Where did it all come from?"
 
Order

The past several decades have added profoundly to our knowledge of chemistry, physics, and cosmology.  It has become increasingly clear that we live in a universe finely tuned for the support of complex life.  This fact is so universally acknowledged that even secular scientists have coined the term "Anthropic Principle" to describe it.
How is it that we live in such an exquisitely fine-tuned universe?  Even assuming that the universe could have popped out of nothingness, why should it have been such an orderly and hospitable one?  Is there a scientific, testable answer for this question that does not simply appeal to imagination?
 
Abiogenesis

The problem of abiogenesis (the origin of the first lifeform) is one of the thorniest and most intractable issues in chemistry.  Our increasing knowledge of microbiology and earth history has only added to the complexity of what needs to be explained.  The simplest life is equivalent to modern bacteria, which is loaded with complex activity, information, and molecular "machines."  The fossil record does not give evidence that there was a "prebiotic soup," or that there were any biological precursors to the first organisms, or that the atmosphere was the ideal mix to yield the necessary molecules, or that there was the expected long period of time between when the Earth could support life and when it actually appeared.  Evolutionists regularly segregate the abiogenesis problem from the issue of evolution because (1) it is a challenge they'd rather not be saddled with, or (2) it is the most logical point for possible divine intervention.  However, for the atheist there is no escaping this issue; they are obliged to seek out some purely natural explanation.
What hope for an explanation do you have?  Are you satisfied to have problems like this that are unanswered, or even unanswerable?
In telling the tale of life on earth science writers often unconsciously use the word "miracle" for the appearance of the first organisms.
What kind of evidence is needed before we are to actually accept that something like this really is a miracle?
 
Transcendent Principles

Logic and mathematics are abstract principles that have been discovered rather than invented.  We cannot do science, communicate, or navigate this world without them.  They appear to stand outside of nature to describe and measure it.  As Albert Einstein said, "The most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it is comprehensible."
What is the source of math and logic?  The existence of this remarkably fine-tuned universe aside, how is it that we have these "languages of reality" to so elegantly describe and interact with it?
 
Morality

Another transcendent entity that is a problem for atheism is morality.  With no divine author or judge there is no reason to think that there should be any moral laws that we are obliged to recognize and keep, except for self-serving reasons.  And yet, morality aligns with our deepest intuitions: we expect others to recognize it; we urge our kids to exercise it; therapists get rich repairing the effects of its abuse; we judge criminals insane if they do not recognize it; and all cultures affirm it in common principle if not in individual application.
Do you deny objective morality; that the difference between Mother Teresa and Hitler is not just a matter of preference, like chocolate vs. vanilla ice cream?  If not, then how do you ground morality; how do you explain where it came from and why we ought to be moral tomorrow?
Skeptics often bring up the "problem of evil" as evidence against God, i.e., if there is a good and all-powerful God, then why is there evil in the world.
Do you think that this is a valid objection?  If so, are you admitting that there is evil in the world?  What is "evil," and do you not admit its opposite: "good?" 
The problem of evil objection only makes sense if such things as good and evil are objectively real, not just preference statements.
 
Meaning

In the atheist worldview we are products of time, chance, and blind forces - there is no objective meaning and value to our human existence.  Yet our deepest longing is for our lives to count for something.  We intuitively know that humans have rights and dignity.
Does life really have no point other than what you pretend for your own sake?  Will you say, like atheist philosopher Albert Camus, that the only serious question is "suicide?"  What values and purpose will you instill in your children?  Will you be honest with them, or will you borrow ideas from some non-atheistic belief system so as not to disappoint?
 
The Mind

In the world of atheism, where there is no soul or transcendent "self," humans are simply biological machines, and our minds are just computers made out of meat.  With this in view there is really no room for something like freewill, since we are all just operating according to our "programming" and our environmental influences.  And there are great difficulties in conceding that chemistry can produce something as abstract as "consciousness," or at least anything qualitatively different from what we ourselves might ultimately produce using computer technology.
Are you prepared to accept the idea that no one is really morally responsible for their bad behavior and, conversely, that virtuous behavior is not commendable?  In what way will you seek to convince me that I am really not a conscious and self-aware being; that it is just a complex biochemical illusion?  Can you accept that computer programs may one day be just as much "persons" as you, yourself?
 
Supernatural Experiences

Every known time and culture is rich with stories of near death experiences, ghosts, angels, demons, prophetic dreams and visions, and miraculous healings.  While some of these are certainly spurious or not well documented, others have reasonable experimental support.  In addition to this, humans seem to be incurably religious; the idea of God and the spiritual is deeply entrenched in the human psyche, if not in its actual experience.
What are we to make of all this?  If man is simply an adapted biological organism, then how is it that we did not manage to adapt to our natural environment in this area - why are we not "naturalists" rather than theists?  Can't any of this be a hint toward reality, or must we think that the bulk of humanity flirts with insanity?
 
Case for Christ

The case for the Jesus of Scripture is extremely compelling.  There is good evidence that the New Testament was written in the generation of the Apostles.  We have thousands of copies of these documents in their source language, some of which go back inside of 100 years after Jesus' death.  There is no evidence of significant corruption in the known manuscripts.  There is no motivation and evidence for fraud among the apostles and church fathers - most died martyr's deaths.  The trend of archaeology is toward validation, not denial, of what it is possible to confirm in Scripture.  Even non-biblical manuscripts support various key details of Christian theology.
The burden of proof is generally on the one seeking to deny historical records.
What alternative explanation do you offer to the New Testament documentation and the tradition of the church, and what support do you have for your theory?
Is it because of the miracles that you doubt the Scriptures?  If Jesus really were God in the flesh, how would you expect Him to confirm that fact?
 
Rational Faith

Christians are often accused of being simple-minded, superstitious, or irrational.
Is it so unreasonable for us to believe that the universe had a beginning because it actually was created; the laws of physics are so fine-tuned because it had a designer; people are preoccupied with good and evil because they are real things; we long for purpose and meaning because they exist to be had; life from non-life really is miraculous; consciousness and freewill seem real because they are; people are incurably religious because there is actually something real in religion; and the historical case for Jesus is so tenacious because it is actually true?
If there really is no meaning or purpose to life, no objective good or evil, and the existence of "truth" itself is open to debate, by what standard will you condemn the beliefs of Christians?

Mada.  Smile

Prevodio sam neke knjige sa enleskog za sebe, a za vas me mrzi, pošto ovo iovako nije tema za one sa osnovnom školom. Pa ateisti kad budete imali odgovore na ova pitanja, javite se, jer za svaki odgovor sledi Nobelova nagrada.

A do tada pozdrav od mene, i razmišljajte.
« Poslednja izmena: 22. Mar 2009, 02:53:30 od sova9072 »
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Kada budes imao sliku kako drzis Nobelovu nagradu spremnu da nam posaljes, pocecu da citam ove copy/paste kilometarske textove koji nemaju ni izvor.

Stvarno mislis da ljudi iako ovde diskutuju, nemaju pametnija posla nego da se toliko cimaju? Ovde se ipak ubija vreme uz zanimljive diskusije, ali se ne spremaju diplomski, masteri, doktorati...  Smile
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Kada budes imao sliku kako drzis Nobelovu nagradu spremnu da nam posaljes, pocecu da citam ove copy/paste kilometarske textove koji nemaju ni izvor.

Stvarno mislis da ljudi iako ovde diskutuju, nemaju pametnija posla nego da se toliko cimaju? Ovde se ipak ubija vreme uz zanimljive diskusije, ali se ne spremaju diplomski, masteri, doktorati...  Smile

Pa upravu si ovo je ipak burek forum, tebe ako ne zanima, ili si ne znaš engleski preskoči post.

Zašto se ti uvek osećaš prozvanim , kad očigledno nemaš bele veze o nekim stvarima.

P.S.

Meni treba 5 minuta, da pročitam sve to, i skontam šta su pitanja. Neka stoji pa ako nekog zanima neka čita.

A za izvor nije politikin zabavnik , niti kurir........, već jedan naučni sajt.
« Poslednja izmena: 22. Mar 2009, 03:12:56 od sova9072 »
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Ko tebe kamenom, ti njega hlebom... starim 15 dana

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Engleski?  Smile Dodji na casove Wink

Nisam prozvan, ucestvujem u diskusiji i vidim da si dao kilometarski text i to bez izvora. Jel komentarisanje zabranjeno?

P.S. Na perfidan nacin si provukao da ateisti ne mogu nista da skontaju komentarom o Nobelu... posto je on za izuzetna dostignuca, ti nam indirektno kazes da je za nas ateiste razumeti i odgovoriti na ovo postavljeno ravno nekom izuzetnom dostignucu.  Smile

P.S.S. Nekako je osnovna kultura da kad nesto poturas sagovornicima na uvid, das izvor, pa cak i ako nije Politikin zabavnik ili Kurir  Smile
« Poslednja izmena: 22. Mar 2009, 03:15:46 od Coolrunner »
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Engleski?  Smile Dodji na casove Wink

Nisam prozvan, ucestvujem u diskusiji i vidim da si dao kilometarski text i to bez izvora. Jel komentarisanje zabranjeno?

Pa nije zabranjeno kometarisanje, zašto bi bilo, i ako znaš engleski čitaj , i razmišljaj. Prekini da sabotiraš.

Evo ti izvor. http://www.lifeway.com/lwc/article_main_page/0,1703,A%253D156853%2526M%253D200169,00.html
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Ne sabotiram. Eto zasto mi je bio vazan izvor, uputio si me na religijski sajt. Ne ocekujem da mi takvo stivo da prostora za drugacije stavove  Smile

Da ne bude da sabotiram, sutra cu natenane da procitam da pa probam da odgovorim. Jeste da nemam kapacitete za Nobela, ali cu se nekako pomuciti sa ovom jednom sivom celijom sto je imam  Smile
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