Nuka je stvar racuna...uvek je i bila...

Pa sad...
Evo zaceprkah malo po Dogonskoj misteriji i naleteh na kratke informacije o celoj prici. Tu su misljenja da tu nema stvarne misterije, te da je cela stvar oslonjena na jedan jedini izvor, a lose protumacena od strane antropologa koji su to proucavali, pa tako sve svrstavaju pod naziv "Bad archaeology" (losa arheologija)

Dobro, to je jedno misljenje, a opet sta je istina Treba opet jos vise proucavanja
Nemam sada puno vremena ali procesljacu sve linkove iz ovog teksta, a i imam negde knjigu (kupio sam ja to onomad kad je izaslo i kada sam i sam bauljao po Egiptu i Mesopotamiji, a knjige kupovao kao lud). Potrudicu se da tu materiju bas pretresem do dana danasnjeg, pa cu vam objektivno preneti sve bitno, obzirom da ne zastupam ni jedan tvrdokoran stav - naprosto ne znam i moram se informisati. Zakljucke ostavimo za kasnije, ako ih bude. Naravno, malo cete popricekati, ipak je to obimno.
Ko stvarno zeli da zna, nebi trebalo da zuri i srlja.

Evo teksta:
"The Sirius Mystery

In 1976, Robert K G Temple (born 1945), an American living in the UK, published what was to become a seminal work of Bad Archaeology, The Sirius Mystery. A revised edition was published in 1998 with the new subtitle New scientific evidence of alien contact 5,000 years ago. Some have gone so far as to suggest that this book was the primary inspiration for the so-called ‘New Egyptology’ of Graham Hancock, Robert Bauval and their imitators. Even if this is a rather hyperbolic assessment of the book’s impact, it has to be said that Temple is in a class above most Bad Archaeologists: he presents an apparently secure thesis, backed up with rigorous scientific data of a type that most others in the genre eschew.
Anthropological underpinnings

Temple begins with the work of Marcel Griaule (1898-1956) and his student Germaine Dieterlen (1903-1999), a pair of French anthropologists who worked in what is now Mali from 1931 to 1956. They reported an apparently anomalous knowledge of astronomy that formed part of the traditional lore of the Dogon, a people of the central plateau of Mali. This knowledge is alleged to include accounts of the rings of Saturn, the existence of four moons orbiting Jupiter and, most surprisingly of all, an account of two companions of the star Sirius. Griaule first published this data in Dieu d’eau: entretiens avec Ogotemmêli (‘God of water: conversations with Ogotemmêli’, 1948), in which he records his conversations with a blind hunter, Ogotemmêli, who claimed to have extensive knowledge of Dogon lore, much of which was restricted to certain tribal elders. Griaule and Dieterlen were able to synthesise the cosmogony from Ogotemmêli’s statements.

Temple was most impressed by the Dogon belief in a complex system of stars making up what we see as the single star, Sirius. This is the brightest star in our skies and, according to the Dogon, as reported by Griaule and Dieterlen, is actually a bright star with several smaller (even ‘invisible’) companions. Focusing especially on a representation of the system drawn by Ogotemmêli (who, it must be remembered, was blind), Temple recognised the highly elliptical orbit of Sirius B, a white dwarf first photographed in 1970, around the principal star of the system, Sirius A. Moreover, Temple found reference to a third component of the system, dubbed Sirius C by the astronomers who accepted its existence (its existence had been suggested but never observed). According to the Dogon, this knowledge had been imparted by the Nommo, fish-like water spirits, in the distant past.


Using myths

Temple needed to explain how an obscure Malian tribe might have gained such an unexpected insight into the make-up of the Sirius star system. He did this by proposing a link between the Dogon and Egyptian Bronze Age civilisation, in which Sirius played an important symbolic role, its rising at dawn announcing the onset of the all-important annual Nile flood. According to Temple, the Dogon were guardians of the oracle of Amun-Rē‘ at the desert oasis of Siwa and were the descendants of the Argonauts. He identifies Sirius with the god Anubis (Anpu), as the Greeks referred to Sirius at the Dog Star and Anubis is depicted as a jackal. Searching for an ancient origin for the Nommo, he turns to the Babylonian writer Berossos (Greek Βήρωσσος, Akkadian Belreušu, fl. early third century BC), whose mostly lost Babyloniaca Book I describes a part-man, part-fish being that emerged from the Persian Gulf to teach humanity various arts of civilisation. This creature is thought to be the Uan (or Uanna) of Babylonian myth, sometimes identified with Adapa, the equally mythical first king of Eridu, also identified by some with Atrahasis, the hero of the Babylonian version of the flood legend.

Temple suggests that Uan was an extraterrestrial visitor who imparted civilisation to the ancient Sumerians, much as von Däniken had suggested rather earlier. However, the detailed anthropological data supplied by Temple was much stronger evidence than anything provided by von Däniken and was therefore superficially more convincing.
The system implodes

However, by the time Temple had published the second edition of The Sirius Mystery in 1998, the whole question of the Dogon’s apparently inexplicable knowledge of Sirius had been blown apart. No-one had questioned Griaule and Dieterlen’s findings until the early 1990s. And this is where the problems for the hypothesis began. In 1991, the anthropologist Walter van Beek undertook fieldwork among the Dogon, hoping to find evidence for their knowledge of Sirius. As the earlier authors had indicated that around 15% of the adult males were initiated into the Sirius lore, this ought to have been a relatively easy task. However, van Beek was unable to find anyone who knew about Sirius B. As ought to have been obvious from the outset, Griaule and Dieterlen’s reliance on a single informant – Ogotemmêli – severely compromises the validity of their data.

But it gets worse. The Dogon themselves do not agree that Sigu tolo is Sirius: it is the bright star that appears to announce the beginning of a festival (sigu), which some identify with Venus, while others claim it is invisible. To polo is not Sirius B, as it sometimes approaches Sigu tolo, making it brighter, while it is sometimes more distant, when it appears as a group of twinkling stars (which sounds like a description of the Pleiades). All in all, the ‘inexplicable’ astronomical knowledge turns out to be too confused to bear the interpretation put on it by Griaule and Dieterlen. It is probably no coincidence that Griaule was a keen amateur astronomer and used his knowledge to rationalise an extremely confusing traditional lore that the Dogon themselves could not agree on.

Robert Temple ought to have known about van Beek’s fieldwork long before the second edition of The Sirius Mystery was published. He also made basic mistakes in his interpretation of Egyptian, Greek and Mesopotamian mythology that undermines his account of the origins of the Dogon’s supposed knowledge. The Egyptians did not identify Sirius as the Dog Star – that was a Greek idea – so it cannot be linked with Anubis. Indeed, Sirius (Spdt in Egyptian) was specifically identified with Isis, as the constellation known to the Greeks as Orion (the hunter whose dog was represented by Sirius) was identified by the Egyptians with Osiris, the husband of Isis.

Ultimately, The Sirius Mystery presents no real mystery. It uses discredited anthropological data, muddled mythological interpretation and lots of unconfirmable speculation. It has become a classic text of Bad Archaeology."

Evo i legende uz fotku Ogotemmêli-jevog crteza:

The Dogon representation of ‘Sirius’ as reported by Marcel Griaule and Germaine Dieterlen, drawn by Ogotemmêli.
The oval represents Amma, the primordial egg and contains:
A: Sigu tolo (identified as Sirius)
B: Pô tolo
C: Emma ya
D: The Nommo
E: The Yourougou (a mythical male, destined to pursue his female twin)
F: The star of women, a satellite of Emma Ya
G: The sign of women
H: Woman’s reproductive organs, represented by a uterus

izvor:
http://www.badarchaeology.com/?page_id=585#

Oko jedne stvari se slažemo , na Zemlji jeste bilo civilizacija o kojima apsolutno ništa neznamo , pa prema tome nije nam poznat niti stepen njihovog naučno-tehnološkog razvoja , zagonetna stvar je međutim zašto zvanični krugovi( manje više uglavnom svi) se slepo drže oko postojeće dogme ( tipa zemlja je ravna ploča) , iako postoji mnoštvo materijalnih dokaza koji govore da istorija nije ni blizu onakva kavom se ona uči u zvaničnim udžbenicima!

Misteriozni nestanak gigantskih ljudskih kostura  ( 10 m) koji su nalaženi širom svijeta je jedan od mnogobrojnih primjera , i nemojte mi sada pokazati neku jeftinu namerno loše urađenu fotošop sliku , jer ako neko želi da diskredituje nekog to je najlakši i najbezobrazniji način , sam načinim očigledni falcifikat da bi time pokazao da je ko fol i sve ostalo kao moja namerno loše urađena slika!

Slijepo insistiranje na Darvinovoj teriji , što je tek jedna budalaština jednog za današnje pojmove nepismenog čovjeka ?  Daleko od toga da sam protiv toga  da  se naučno istražuje porijeklo čovjeka , ali doista naučno , dočim nauka i savmeni evoluistični pravac nemaju  nikakve veze !

Mnogo ima neodgovorenih pitanja , pa i pitanje vanzemaljskog života , međutim od svog materijala koji je meni došao bar dosada u ruke , radi se uglavnom o senzacinalizmu , šarlatanstvu , propagandi .... ozbiljnosti vrlo malo.

Dali je ovo slučajno ?

Ja mislim da posle nekog velikog rata dosli neki vanzemaljci i kolonizovali zemlju a posto su bili neki verski fanatici unistili su svu tehnologiju pa resili da zive ekoloski jer su okrivili tehnologiju za svo zlo 

Piramide, Naska linije, Stounhendz, arheoloska nalazista gradova u kojima ima radijacije i stenje koje je od toplote pretvoreno u staklo, kristalna lobanja bez znakova orudja i radjena u suprotnom smerku od pruzanja kristala.... itd itd, ko hoce i ima vremena nek gleda Ancient aliens, ima na history a ima na youtube 

Uz svo postovanje, ali ovo je u najmanju ruku kontradiktorno! Ako neznamo nista, kako onda mozemo tvrditi da su postojale. Dakle, ne slazemo se mi u tome. Ja mislim da je moguce da su postojale, sto nije isto kao i tvrdnja : "postojale su".

Dokazi koji postoje nisu nepobitni, jer postoje razna moguca tumacenja koja nije lako pobiti niti potvrditi. Stvari su daleko od neke jasne slike.

O tim uklonjenim kosturima sam cuo samo price, a voleo bih neke sigurne dokaze (sto je ovde i tema) ili bar neki razlozan tekst, informaciju itd, ili treba tebi da verujem na rec?

Sto se tice Darvina i evolucije, tu se apsolutno ne slazem s tobom, i cak bih rekao da nemas nikakava prava da vredjas coveka - ako tako stvarno mislis, onda ce bit pre da si ti bezobrazan nego sto je on bio nepismen.
Evolucija jedina i objasnjava mnoge stvari. Kreacionisticka teorija je po meni vise dubiozna, a pogotovo religijska objasnjenja. Simptomaticna je ta nebulozna dogma kod religije, naravno ni nauka nije operisana od toga, ali evolucija je toliko ocigledna, samo sto je neki povrsno i pogresno shvataju. Zakoni (kompleks zakona koji uticu na evoluciju i uopste na opstojanje celog uneverzuma ili ako bas hoces bezbroj paralelnih univerzuma je dovoljna alatka za apsolutnog kreatora, da se izbori sa stvaranjem vascele vasione - ili ti: Bogu nije potrebno da stvara svaku zivuljku ponaosob, dovoljan mu je odredjen broj savrsenih zakona po kojima se energija i materija ponasaju, pa da iz toga sve iznikne. Slika koje daju religije je kroz hiljade i hiljade godina uprosteno, transformisano i podosta iskrivljeno predanje, gde je izuzetno opasno bukvalno shvatati stvari.

Jedino se slazem sa zadnjim redovima, da ima mnogo neodgovorenih pitanja. A zasto ima sarlatanstva? Znas sta ja mislim: zato sto niko nece stvarno i iskreno da radi, vec vecina hoce da brzo dodje do slave, pa makar to bila i kratka prevara koja ce ga na kratko staviti u vesti; zato sto su svi nestrpljivi i zato sto nema nikakvih ozbiljnih posledica ako pljuju, lupetaju, izmisljaju, demagogisu,, bilo da je to na forumima, TV-u, skupstini itd. Nije to nista novo, to su uvek bili znaci ozbiljne krize civilizacije, znaci najverovatnijeg nadolaska bitnih promena, koje uvek nose i dobro i zlo. Covek je podosta nesavrsen, ali pri tome zna na kratke trenutke zacudjujuce da iznenadi u pozitivnom smislu, da bi odmah po tom, kao nako kratkog uzdaha, ponovo krenuo nizbrdo ka ludilu.

Ako su davno pre postojale civilizacije (bilo da su ljudske ili neke druge) ocigledno su patile od istog sindroma, jer, jednostavno ih vise nema, osim ako za taj nestanak nije kriva priroda (mega vulkan, asteroid i tome slicno).

I na kraju, ja bih stvarno voleo da postavite nesto konkretno sem svojih opservacija, koje, ruku na srce nisu ni blizu neceg naucnog, vec su iskrene, interesantne, ali ipak samo licne, ponekad dosta emotivne ekspresije.

Nemojte me shvatiti pogresno - ja ne poznajem materiju, ali trudim se da pronadjem nesto konkretno o nekom primeru. Djaba nam rasprava koja je samo razmena jarko obojenih izliva sarolike vrste.

Zivi bili

To je cool Zvezdanines  , ali ja se ne secam da tu igde ima konacnog dokaza. Sve su pretpostavke, misterija, pitanje...  u tom grmu lezi zec; nikad dokaz, uvek pitanje.

Dokaz u petak    21.12.2012. 

E vala bas, da konacno resimo sve misterije za svagda

Ako je tema zamisljena da se ozbiljno razgovara, da li je ovo dovoljno ozbiljno:


Ili mozda dijalog, gde se ovim putem zahvaljujem ucesnicima, koji je vodjen na temi od npr ove strane:
http://forum.burek.com/biblija-istina-ili-laz-t262206.msg8649160.html#msg8649160
pa ko je zinteresovan neka baci pogled do zakljucno sa stranom 347 na istoj temi.

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Ne moram ucestvovati na temi, ali bi zaista bilo pravo zadovoljstvo procitati i nesto jos nauciti. Pa bilo to samo o pogledima i misljenjima ljudi o tim stvarima.

Zivi bili.