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Bosnian Kingdom

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mozda od marsovaca koji su izgradili piramide? Smile
svijet je pun neobjasnjenih misterija

čitaj malo boki, ima tu i tvojih, vaših srpskih izvora, nije to tek tako s neba palo i izmišljeno...mi smo potomci tih slavnih dinastija...
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Nije lijepo biti lud, a da to ne znash...jebači svih zemalja, ujedinite se Smiley
Bi vi svakakve djaole kad bi mogli, ali sila izduvala, ostalo samo tarlahanje po forumima.
"Daj ne jebi gredu: Beogradski manijak silovao metalnu banderu"
letopis matice srpske iz 1825 g kaže ovako : Bošnjaci žive između   Drine, Vrbasa, Save, Dalmacije i Huma, cirka 450 000, ispovjedaju Islam, ili su Rimokatolici, ili pravoslavni....
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a ciju mapu da postavim iz tog vremena? od amerikanaca?
jesi i ti serv znaci?
zar nisi bosnjak? Smile
nego interesatna ta imena bosnjaka Stipani,Vuci,Hrvatinici Radoslavi Hrvatinici
podsjeca me na "slicnost" imena ljudi koji su tada zivili u drzavama kao na primjer Venecija i Florinska republika gdje su i jedan i drugi se zvali emmanuel il drzave bavarska i saxonija gdje su ludwigi zivjeli Smile
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The old man looks at his wife and says „Honey, get my gun. The Serbs are back.”
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   neko je lud ovdje Smile

version in Serbian
   

Serb Land of Bosnia

"We are apt to speak of the Serbs of Serbia as 'the' Serbians,
and to forget that modern Serbia is a recent state mapped out
arbitrarily by the Powers."
by Mary E. Durham

Indeed, the Serbs in Bosnia feel themselves equally an essential part of the Serbdom. Even as the leaders of the struggle for the unification of all Serbs. This idea is recalled today in the way the Serbs in Bosnia refer to their land. Besides the name Bosnia, you will also hear them call it Serbska, meaning 'the Serb land'.

      
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Acknowledgments

Because of the great level of interest on the topic of the identity of medieval Bosnia, I've decided to renew this page and enrich it as well. Most of the material found here is here thanks to the "old cafe patrons" in the "history" section of Serbian Cafe (www.serbiancafe.com). Comments or questions can be referred to the guest book or e-mail.

CafeHome

And now the presentation...


• Ban (viceroy) Matej Ninoslav
• Ban (viceroy) Matej Ninoslav, 1240
• The Kotromanic dynasty
• The Language
• Western sources and literature
    • On the Administration of the Empire (De Administrando Imperio)
    • The annals of the Frankish chronologist Einhard
    • The letter of the Roman Pope to Dubrovnik
    • The Rodoslov of Bar
    • Encyclopedia Britannica
• Linguistic Variants
• The concept of the term 'state' in the middle ages
• The titles of rulers
• Links
• The page on the nobility.




Ban Matej Ninoslav


The text which speaks that Bosnia, according to the following Bosnian ruler, is inhabited only by Serbs and Vlachs

This is an without a doubt proof that within medieval Bosnia Serbs were the main inhabitants even while Bosnia stretched from Sarajevo to Zenica only (the valley of the river "Bosna"). In the international accord on the lack on Bosnian-Dubrovnik relations, the Ban (viceroy) Ninoslav explicitly calls his subjects "Serbs" (Srblji) and the Dubrovnikers "Vlachs" (Vlasi).
For deceit by a Vlach of a Serb, a Bosnian court was to be conveyed. But for deceit of a Serb over a Vlach, a court was to be convened in Dubrovnik.
Calling Dubrovnikers "Vlachs" as well as the Latin origin of their prince's name, tells us that, at the time, the Dubrovnikers were still ROMANS and not Slavicized, whereas the Bosnians where "Serbs" who felt the difference enough to use two different names to describe themselves.
This was all written when Bosnia was only 100 km from the Dubrovnik border, and the agreement does not does not apply to Serb tribes within Dubrovnik. Serbia, at the time was under the rule of the Nemanjic Kings and at the time, they also bordered Dubrovnik.

From:Lj. Stojanovic - "Old Serbian Documents", I., 8, 9-10.



The Charter of Matej Ninoslav, son of Radivoj, 1232-1235

The Charter of Matej Ninoslav, son of Radivoj, 1232-1235

 (The Charter of Matej Ninoslav, son of Radivoj, 1232-1235)

Ban Matej Ninoslav (from old Slavic to Serbian)


1232-1235

In the name of the father, son and the holy ghost!
I, God's slave, Matej, branch of Ninoslav, great viceroy of Bosnia, swear unto the prince of Dubrovnik
Dubrovnik's Zan Dandole (Gianni Dandolli) and all the regions of Dubrovnik.
I swear just as Ban Kulin swore before me:
For the Vlachs to walk freely as they did in the time of Ban Kulin, freely without deceit and evil...thus if a Vlach deceives a Serb, may he be held in the Ban's court.

(Letter to the Dubrovnikers)

 

 

Ban Matej Ninoslav, 1240

In the international accord on the lack on Bosnian-Dubrovnik relations, the Ban (viceroy) Ninoslav explicitly calls his subjects "Serbs" (Srblji) and the Dubrovnikers "Vlachs" (Vlasi): "For deceit by a Vlah of a Serb, a Bosnian court was to be conveyed. But for deceit of a Serb over a Vlach, a court was to be convened in Dubrovnik."


The Charter of Matej Ninoslav, son of Radivoj, 1240
 

The Charter of Matej Ninoslav, son of Radivoj, 1240

(The Charter of Matej Ninoslav, son of Radivoj, 1240)



Bosnian rulers called themselves Serbs, as they called Serbs their own subjects.
Tvrtko Kotromanic was crowned as 'the King of SERBS, Bosnia, the Seacoast and Western Parts" on the grave of St. Sava in the Mileseva. In order to emphasize the relationship of the Nemanjic (Serb in Rascia, the first Serbian state within the borders of modern Serbia) and Kotromanic (Bosnian Serb) dynasties , Tvrtko puts before his own name, the title Stefan, which indicates that he is crowned. In this letter the name Stefan is mentioned often (see for example the last word in the first sentence), just as it is also emphasized in the letter the concept of "Serbian land" or "Serbs" (Srbljem) as one ethnic categorization. For example, in the fifth line, Tvrtko clearly indicates the roots of his 'parents of Serb nobility". Also, at the end of the letter, on the right side in big letters there is emphasized the title "King of the Serbs.

For a source, see the letters of the medieval rulers which are microfilmed in their original and are kept in the Dubrovnik archives. Also see the letters of the Bosnian ban (viceroy) Ninoslav.

The letters of the Bosnian nobles of the Kotromanic dynasty in which we clearly see how they felt their ethnicity to be
Serbian
 

Stefan Tvrtko Kotromanic

Stefan Dabisa Kotromanic

Stefan Ostoja Kotromanic

Stefan Ostojic Kotromanic

Stefan Tvrtko II Kotromanic

Stefan Tomas Kotromanic

All the above mentioned letters were written in the Cyrillic script. There is a piece of the Zografic bible for those who think Cyrillic and Glagolictic are interchangeable (11th century).

Zographic Bible

 
           Royal Coats of Arms
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(Royal Coats of Arms)
 



Bosnian Rulers called their Language Serbian
Bosnian ban (viceroy) Stefan Kotromanic (1322-1353) declares in 1333. a letter to Dubrovnik in which he states: "Thus I the noble ban Stefan impress my golden seal, so that all may know and see the truth. This is why the seals are equal, two in Latin and two in Serbian and all are sealed in gold.".

The Charter Stefan Kotromanic, 1333

(The Charter Stefan Kotromanic, 1333)

At the time, it was a tradition to give out four letters of the same text in Serbian and Latin. This letter may be found in:

Franz Miklosich, Monumenta Serbica, Vienna 1858. p. 105-109
Lj. Stojanovic - "Stare Srpske povelje i pisma" (Old Serbian Letters), I, 46.



Western sources and literature
On the Administration of the Empire (De Administrando Imperio), 10-th century
Constantine VII Porphyrogenitus aka: CONSTANTINE VII FLAVIUS PORPHYROGENITUS (b. September 905, Constantinople [now Istanbul, Turkey]. Nov. 9, 959), the Byzantine emperor from 913 to 959.

His writings are an immense source regarding the empire and neighboring lands. His work "De Administrando Imperio" is kept in its original manuscript in the Vatican library. It deals primarily with the Slavic peoples of the Balkans and its a huge account of geographical and cultural as well as political situation of the Balkans at the time. Porphyrogenitus does not only discuss the events of his lifetime, but of earlier periods such as that of Heraclius (610-641) and earlier.

Heading 32 of De Administrando Imperio of Constantine Porphyrogenitus, is called "On the Serbs and the lands in which they live". It speaks of the territories inhabited by Serbs in which he mentions Bosnia, specifically two inhabited cities, Kotor and Desnik, both of which are in an unidentified geographic position.


The annals of the Frankish chronologist Einhard, 9-th century
A source older than that of the is that of the Frankish chronicler Einhard . In his annals („Royal Frankish Annals”), so precious to Serb history, he describes the uprising of the Pannonian prince Ljudevit (818-823). In his work, he claims that Ljudevit "withdrew from the city of Sisak and fled to the Serbs". Accordingly, Serbs must have lived somewhere around Una, maybe even to the west, likely where the modern Serbian Krajina (region of Lika) lies.

"Liudevitus Siscia civitate relicta, ad Sorabos, quae natio magnam Dalmatie partem obtinere dicitur, fugiendo se contulit"
, that is: "Ljudevit (prince of Lower Pannonia 822. - prim. CafeHome) having left the city of Sisak, fled to the Serbs, people inhabiting the greater part of Dalmatia).
Franjo Racki, the Croatian historian, says, that as the Roman province of Dalmatia stretched from the Adriatic to Pannonia, under those Serbs, who are mentioned by Einhard, we must look at all those lands between, and the people inhabiting them, ie: Bosnia to be considered Serbian land, inhabited by Serbs.


The letter to Dubrovnik
The Pope sent in 1188 to the bishop of Dubrovnik a letter and in it he acknowledges all the old rights of the Dubrovnik church. In the letter, he mentions Serbian Bosnia: "regnum Servilie, quod est Bosna" (Serbian kingdom of Bosnia). That was in the time of Ban Kulin.

("regnum" must have loosely meant kingdom in that time for, Bosnia was then a "banovina")

From: I. Kukuljevic, Codex diplom, II, 148, p. 21.)

 

In Perugia, February 24th., 1252

In his letter, Johannes, the archbishop of Dubrovnik (archiepiscopus Ragusinus), mentions Serbian Bosnia: "regnum Seruilie, quod est Bosgna" i.e. "Serbian kingdom of Bosnia". ("Regnum" must have loosely meant kingdom in that time for, Bosnia was then a "banovina".)

"...tria regna, videlicet regnum Zachlomie, regnum Seruilie, quod est Bosgna et regnum Tribunie. Et regnum Zachulmie extenditur vsque ad prouinciam Spalatensem, regnum Seruilie extenditur vsque ad prouinciam Collocensem, regnum Tribunie extenditur vsque ad prouinciam Dirachinam."

From: "Bullarium Ragusium", 401-402

The Writings of father Diocletian (Dukljanin) also known by its Serbian acronym LPD, 12-th century
The Archbishopric of Duklja, according to the Writings of father Diocletian (Dukljanin) also known by its Serbian acronym LPD, 12-th century
Enlarge

(The Archbishopric of Duklja, according to the Writings of father Diocletian (Dukljanin) also known by its Serbian acronym LPD, 12-th century)
           The Chronicle of the Priest of Dioclea (LPD), also known as the Bar document is one of the oldest known written sources and kept in its Latin translation from the XVI century. It is a the work of a priest from Bar from. 1196.

The LPD divided Serbia into two parts as follows: "Surbiam autem quae et Transmontana dicitur, in duas divisit provinciam: unam a magna flumine Drina contra occidentalem palagam usque and montem Pini, quam et Bosnam vocavit, alteram vero ab eodem flumine Drina contra orientalem plagam usque ad Lapiam et [ad paludem Labeatidem], quam Rassam vocavit".

The LPD called Bosnia and Raska (the name of the first Serbian state within the borders of modern Serbia) by the common name "Serbia", which clearly indicates the united Serbian national identity.


Encyclopedia Britannica
1. The first recorded mention of Bosnia was written during this period by the Byzantine emperor Constantine VII Porphyrogenitus, who described "Bosona" as a district in "baptized Serbia."

2. TVRTKO KOTROMANIC (b. c. 1338--d. 1391), probably the greatest ruler of Bosnia, ruling as Bosnian ban (provincial lord, subservient to the king of Hungary) from 1353 and king of the Serbs and Bosnia from 1377.

3. The Ottoman Turks invaded Bosnia in 1386, and after many battles it became a Turkish province in 1463. Hum held out longer under rulers who styled themselves herceg ("duke") of St. Sava--a name recalled today in Herzegovina.
 
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The old man looks at his wife and says „Honey, get my gun. The Serbs are back.”
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Svedok stvaranja istorije

нећу жваку 'оћу кусур!

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mozda od marsovaca koji su izgradili piramide? Smile
svijet je pun neobjasnjenih misterija


Па све они објасне...амеба па мајмун па бошњак. Остаје само мистерија у чему је разлика између другог и трећег.
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Земомак, показујеш запањујуће одсуство познавања историје. Босну су насељавали претежно Срби, али је било и пуно Хрвата. Котроманићи су српска лоза. И није случајно што је Твртко одабрао да се овенча у Милешеви, јер тиме потврђује везу између себе и Немањића.

u redu, ali kako objašnjavaš da nije sahranjen kao pravoslavac????nema to veze sa vjerskom pozadinom, ja ti govorim o naciji...srbi su naseljavali isključivo prostor hercegovine, a recimo prva srpska crkva u sarajevu i prvi pomen svećenik(mitropolit) se veže za početak 16 stoljeća...ali i tad je upitno jesu li to bili srbi ili vlasi...
Вера нема никакве везе. Срба католика, на пример, било је колико хоћеш. Као и богумила или, касније, муслимана.

Бошњак је географска одредница, као Анадолац, на пример.
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mozda od marsovaca koji su izgradili piramide? Smile
svijet je pun neobjasnjenih misterija



Па све они објасне...амеба па мајмун па бошњак. Остаје само мистерија у чему је разлика између другог и трећег.

eh sad prema svemu ovome što sam iznio postavlja se pitanje : ko je šta prodo za jednu večericu? Smile biće da ste vi...


@bokimajk, ne ne nisu u pravu, ovdje se jasno vidi da je bosnjanin i bošnjak nacionalna odrednica ili u krajnjem slučaju u to vrijeme je i srb bila teritorijalna odrednica...
« Poslednja izmena: 06. Jul 2008, 13:50:18 od zemomak »
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Nije lijepo biti lud, a da to ne znash...jebači svih zemalja, ujedinite se Smiley
Bi vi svakakve djaole kad bi mogli, ali sila izduvala, ostalo samo tarlahanje po forumima.
"Daj ne jebi gredu: Beogradski manijak silovao metalnu banderu"
letopis matice srpske iz 1825 g kaže ovako : Bošnjaci žive između   Drine, Vrbasa, Save, Dalmacije i Huma, cirka 450 000, ispovjedaju Islam, ili su Rimokatolici, ili pravoslavni....
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jel i bavarac bila nacionalna odrednica? Smile
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An elderly Albanian couple is sitting in their dark flat in Pristina. The electricity is out, yet again, and they are sitting in front of a blank television, lights out, food beginning to rot in the refrigerator which isn't running, no hot water, and certainly no cooking to do. They are just sitting there, wondering what to do next when all of the sudden, the crackle of electricity is heard when the lights begin to flicker. The television comes to life, the hum of the refrigerator can be heard and the water heater starts up.

The old man looks at his wife and says „Honey, get my gun. The Serbs are back.”
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...члан секције младих трезвењака...

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Pitanje svima: "Jeste li culi za ruzniji naziv nekog naciona, vjerske grupacije...itd od "Bosnjaka" ?
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Prefer a feast of friends to the giant family
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Срб није била територијална, већ национална одредница. У противном би постојала, на пример, нација Личани.
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jel i bavarac bila nacionalna odrednica? Smile

bavarac je teritorijalna, kao što je recimo u bosni krajišnik, podrinjac, ozrenac, posavac...odmah ih umiješ locirat gdje žive otprilike....
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Nije lijepo biti lud, a da to ne znash...jebači svih zemalja, ujedinite se Smiley
Bi vi svakakve djaole kad bi mogli, ali sila izduvala, ostalo samo tarlahanje po forumima.
"Daj ne jebi gredu: Beogradski manijak silovao metalnu banderu"
letopis matice srpske iz 1825 g kaže ovako : Bošnjaci žive između   Drine, Vrbasa, Save, Dalmacije i Huma, cirka 450 000, ispovjedaju Islam, ili su Rimokatolici, ili pravoslavni....
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