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Leeds Will Chase the 15 Points

Leeds United boss Dennis Wise has outlined the reasons as to why it is right for the club to fight for a re-instatement of the 15 point penalty all the way to the High Court.

Last week, the clubs official website Leedsunited.com carried a statement that the club had written to the Football Association, requesting that the independent review into the 15 point penalty imposed by the Football League by taken to the High Court rather than undergo yet another FA based investigation.

Leeds United started the season on -15 as The Football League allowed the club to enter the season without having a Company Voluntary Agreement (CVA) in place however Ken Bates believed this was unfair, and that the way that League One looks now would be completely different had the Yorkshire side been treated fairly by the league.

Speaking to leedsunited.com, manager Wise said: 'You'll never forget what's happened because we would be 10 points clear at the top and not be so down about losing to Cheltenham.'

'But unfortunately we're not. We're five points adrift of top position and that's the difference.

'We're going to lose games, that will happen, but if we were in the comfort zone and didn't have this, that's where we would be.

For the very first time, Vital Leeds United will now post the “real” version of the top 5 clubs in League One!

Leeds 17 41
Leyton Orient 17 31
Nottm Forest 16 30
Carlisle 16 29
Swansea 16 28

www.leeds.vitalfootball.co.uk

Leeds United's 15 point row: YOUR VIEWS - UPDATED 28 NOV

We asked for your views on the ongoing row over Leeds United's 15 point deduction.
To join in the debate, email us by clicking here.We'll publish the lot.

Here are the latest:

We are right to fight on for ever the injustice of how we were treated by the Football association and Mr Mahwinney in particular.
My dream is that we win the league ..and every player in turn accepts his medal and refuses to shake this mans hand.Let this be broadcast across the world to show the predjudice with which the club and its loyal supporters have been subjected.

We will never rest until justice is done ..and seen to be done.

MOT.
David Shapiro
Durham
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Leeds exploited a loophole to get -10 pts last season - it wasn't illegal. The administrators and the Tax man then ensured that Leeds could not have a CVA (after setting one up initially) and Leeds get punished? IT'S WRONG WRONG WRONG

a Leeds fan for 49 years - during which time we've always got the bad deals including

Playing loads of games 2 days apart in 1970 when chasing the treble
Playing a title decider two days after winning the cup in 72
The Ref fiasco v West Brom costing us the league with a ground closure probably costing us the league the year after
Bad refereeing in the European Cup final

Having to fire sale all our players over the last few years whilst trying our best to stay solvent

Trev Robertson

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Hello, as a long standing supporter of LUFC from the Mr Harry Renolds days
enduring all the highs and lows in the clubs fortune,I feel the 15 point deduction injustice just about caps them all,and this meated out by persons in positions that are above their stations.I emailed the FA to register my objections to the deduction and recieved an answere saying not very much. I would like to see LUFC fight this until a sensible conclusion is reached.
Marching on Together.
B Gill Bentham North Yorks.

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the highest point deduction ever handed out.
i understand their verdict but why 15 points when the football league's penalty for this breech is 10 points (and is stated in their own book of rules)
unless they changed them quickly to suit them.
get it sorted football league. it should be one same rule for everyone.
P. S lets win the league and stick it right up the lot of em...we are leeds.

Big Al in Birstall

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I wonder how many fans are aware that Simon Johnson, the FA's Corporate Affairs Executive, who has twice turned down the clubs appeal for an independent inquiry, is a Leeds fan. It begs the question whether he was over-reacting internally at the FA - trying to prove he was completely unbiased with his colleagues! The problem is that there is no love lost at the FA re Ken Bates so the chances of appealing for an independent panel to discuss it will fall on deaf ears.

John Cooper

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Of course we should pursue the theft of 15 points. When the tax man's empty posturing came to nothing he took with him any case to answer. The vindictive old fools running the FL know that but their arrogance won't allow a U-turn. It will be interesting to see how they deal with Luton.

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The fight should go on.
First, the process that resulted in the 15 point outcome was flawed. The "jury" was composed of parties (other football league members) that benefited from the punishment they meted out and the "court" (The FA) referred the disputed outcome to itself to resolve. An independent review is required.
Second, the punishment (a 15 point deduction inflicted on the team and it's supporters) does not fit with the crime (a sale of the club that contravened the Football Leagues rules). The sale details were put together by a professional accounting company. If there was a problem with the arrangement, punish the accounting company.
Finally, many people believe that there is a feeling of victimisation driving The Whites to their many victories this season. By keeping this issue on the radar it may provide the impetus for further successes.

Eamonn Condon
Phoenix, Arizona

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I feel very strongly that we should pursue the matter of the points deduction. Like other correspondents I too have asked for a clear explanation of the rules Leeds United broke in order to receive the 15 deduction, no answer has been supplied.
The obviously unfair nature of the "Kangaroo Court" we faced is quite indefensible under any circumstances, this said, I do not believe that we will get the points back, justice or even the appearance of justice, is not something either the FA or Football League care much about.
The double standards and the jobs for the boys culture which prevails in both these organisations make it seem they only exist for the benefit of the bureaucrat who seem to make a very comfortable living off the back of the game and the last thing they are interested in is the state of the game in this country.
They have done nothing at all to tackle the major problems at the heart of the game in this country which has resulted in the ignominy of being dumped out of Euro 2008. The appalling standard of behaviour is not addressed, players cheat regularly, disrespect match officials and managers condone indefensible behaviour yet the Football League and FA do nothing. When it can be forced to act it is usually inconsistent and shows a marked bias for some and against others which further brings it in to disrepute.
Root and branch reform is the only thing that will work but that most definitely does not mean letting this lot sort out the mess they have made and ignored for so long. Sack the lot, streamline the rule book; appoint truly independent assessors for discipline and financial management issues. State clearly and unambiguously what the rules are, who they apply to and what the punishment is for breaking them and then apply them with total impartiality.
Even people who hate Leeds United and are really pleased with the points deduction don't think it was fair; they just don't care so long as it's us and not them.
Sue

East Leeds

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I have followed Leeds since the late sixties. If and whenever our club infringes any rules, we are always made to suffer more than ANY other team in similar circumstances.

The FA are a set of Jokers - always have been. Remember when we were robbed of the title by refereeing decisions, a "pitch invasion" of around thirty people resulted in a three match home "ban" for the club!
All Leeds fans know I could go on and on.

Take the 15 points to the high court. The FA claim football is a game when it suits them, and a business when that suits them! Well, if it's a business, Santa Ken should use the courts to get this overturned and ensure the FA are to have to pay damages if they loose the case.
Lost income for a club like Leeds would run into millions and be much more than the compensation for the England "manager" recently departed.

How about a fighting fund from the fans of a pound a ticket, returned when we win the court case??

Chris, Alicante, Spain.

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Of course Leeds should fight the 15 point deduction.

There is a long standing history of the Football League and F.A treating Leeds differently to other clubs. A history that goes back to the Revie era and has continued ever since.

Famously Revie fell out with the powers that be, over what he saw as unfair treatment of Leeds. When English clubs were banned from Europe after Heysel, Leeds were told they had to withdraw from a pre season tournament on the continent. They were replaced by Luton Town!! When we got to the F.A Cup semi final, we were allocated the smaller section of the ground, despite our average attendance being thousands more than that of Coventry City. I could go on for ages.

To expect anything other than blatant rule breaking to punish Leeds would be naive.

We should fight them every step and at every turn.

I predict we will win, because if not, the League have created a monster that they can not control. Luton are deep in trouble and it wont be long before a so called "big", or rather, favoured, team hits the slope to oblivion. Will they punish them as they have us? Don't hold your breath.

Chris Wade
Leeds 17

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The 15 point deduction and the fight to get it back should go on till the end of the season, but more importantly, and no one seems to have mentioned this, WILL the HMRC go after Luton Town now they have gone into administration? In the same way they allegedly went after us? If not why not?

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Dennis Wise, Ken Bates, Leeds Utd and us fans have to fight the 15 point deduction!

It is scandalous that AC Milan get hit with a 10 point deduction for MATCH FIXING and we get 15 points because KPMG didn't do there job properly! They are the ones who should be punished, not Leeds Utd and certainly not the fans.

And by way things are going since Dave Bassett joined us we may well be left to rue the deduction come the end of the season! We need to either get some of the 15 points back or get rid of 'Harry' before it's too late!!!

Kind regards
Kirk Baker

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The 15 point deduction is a double-edged sword. Whilst it made the first third of the season a struggle, having to get to zero before we could even start making progress up the league, it has also galvanised the club. The fans have got behind the previously reviled Dennis Wise, and one has to wonder whether the run we've had would've happened without it. Having said that, of course the row should go on. 15 points is unprecedented, and yet Luton got the standard 10 point deduction, when going into administration. The problem, I feel, is Ken Bates unfailing ability to rub people up the wrong way.

Lets face it, Ken is not well liked in legal circles, or indeed, in the upper echelons of football administration. He has rocked too many boats in the past. In his tenure at Leeds, he has managed to alienate the Supporters Club, former directors, and the Football League. Whilst most of the work he has done so far has been to the benefit of Leeds Utd, I can't help but feel there is a self-destructive element in his approach to the game's rulemakers, and with agencies that could work with the club to put it back where it belongs.

I also feel that getting the 15 points back now may take the edge of the siege mentality. Let's keep the row going, but pray for a positive outcome (even if its just a deduction reduction) no earlier than Easter 2008. By that time, the siege mentality of Elland Road should have us in a position where 15 points doesn't actually matter!

Regards,
Mick Snowden.

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The 15 point penalty is unfair and unjust. A full list of reasons should be given as to why it was imposed.

Phil

York

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Hi.
I write from Malta and have been supporting Leeds United for 42 years now.
In all that time I have always felt that the powers that be are up against Leeds at every given opportunity.
I say Leeds should fight this 15 point deduction tooth and nail. Its an injustice.
Christopher Briffa

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The club should continue the fight,we have nothing to lose.I think our best argument is we should not have been penalised more than the usual 10 points for failing to come to an agreement with the creditors having gone into administration,so should get at least 5 back.

Peter Collins,London.

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I have been a season ticket holder since 1991/1992 season and I think the FA have just been looking for a chance to shaft Leeds United as much as they possibly can.

I believe they still hate the club for all that went on in the seventies and eighties and any chance of kicking us whilst we are down was something they looked forward to doing.

I think we should continue to challenge the legality of this and take it to the high courts.

Up the whites.
Barry Fogal

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Hi There,

If this was a southern club (west ham) or who down there, A fine but still in the prem league that's fine (not),but a northern team bash them has much has you can ,we have hear the stories over the wekend can i say more
Chips

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Keep fighting on the pitch and in the courts if necessary!

Kevin Prew – Oxford.

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Absolute madness!! I have written to the FA several times now asking for some kind of explanation but all i get back is rubbish! How can we be deducted all these points when Luton go the same way in to administration and are only deducted 10 points-makes no sense at all and i think the FA have some kind of hidden agenda against United.

TC MARCHING ON TOGETHER

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I feel the club should pursue this is far as possible! Why not to UEFA and/or FIFA? Why were less points deducted for match fixing & the like in Italy last year than for Leeds over some 'alleged' financial anomoly? The least we could do with is a reduction in the 15 if not all!!!!
Chris in Cookridge

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As the deduction was brought about because of the Inland Revenue and their investigation into L.U.F.C and Ken Bates buying them back yet no charges were filed by the
Inland Revenue which means everything was okay that also means that the points deduction is illegal as L.U.F.C. and Ken Bates have done nothing wrong.

Also the appeal should not have been adjudicated by the same person or persons that had initially given the penalty aswell as the vote been down to L.U.F.C. rivals in league 1 as they will show byas towards the vote against L.U.F.C.

Ken Bates and Dennis Wise are right to continue the fight against the deduction as everything done by the Football league and Brian Mawhinney stinks of prejudist against L.U.F.C. and not allowing an independant tribunal shows that they are conducting things against the human rights that this country should be proud of.Ken,Dennis and all those at L.U.F.C.

DON'T give up the fight show them you are not scared of them, fight fight fight for what is right get the 15point deduction overturned

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