Ne vidim sta je ovde u suprotnosti sa pricom. Rudel i nije ucestvovao u ovoj prici, samo postoji prica (da li je potvrdjena -ne zna se) da je trebao ucestvovati ali se razboleo (moguce da, od jeseni 37 pa do juna 38, se lecio, vraco u kondiciju, leteo nesto drugo -ko ce ga znati).
Stuke jesu ucestvovale u spanskom gradjanskom ratu...??? (evo dole i dva profilcica )
Ne razumem gde je poenta???

 rudel je tek pocheo da se shkoluje za ju-87 1938 ,pa mu josh nije ishlo (izbacili ga  ) . 1939 u poljskoj je vozio izvidjachke avione ,pa je smuvao da ga vrate ne trening za ju-87 

 u shpaniji su ju-87 uchestvovali samo experimentalno

inache naziv stuka se ne odnosi samo na ju-87 ,otuda potichu mnoge zabune

Znam licno da je koltron dobro obavesten i da nista ne pise bez crno na belo. Bf_109 je dobro rekao sto se tice ucesca Ju87 u Spaniji. Inace verzija A se zvala kod njih Stupido. Jedinice Stuka su bile Stukageschwader i u nacelu bilo je jos aviona za obrusavanje ali ipak je Ju87 ostao glavni za to a npr. Ju88 je mnogo manje koristen za te potrebe. Ju87 su imali i Japanci.

koliko mi je poznato ,jedini  pozmatiji incident sa tim prvim verzijama je ovo :

The prototype Ju87V1 (c/n 4921) flew first on September, 17th 1935 with Willi Neuenhofen. This aircraft was equipped with a 385kW Rolls Royce Krestel engine as the Jumo 210 was not available at the time of the first flight. The prototype also was equipped with a twin tail unit. On January 24th 1936 Neuenhofen crashed with the prototype during dive experiments. Neuenhofen and a developement engineer were killed during that crash.

Ok, o tom Rudelu stvarno ne znam nista , a sta je istina od vase dve tvrdnje to treba istraziti.

Ju 87 A, Ju 87 A-1, Ju 87 A-2 ucestvovali su u spanskom gradjanskom ratu. Evo dole malo fotkica. Imali su tamo ekipu "Ruzicasto prase" (Jolanthe Kette) i prvo su dosla 4 aviona Ju 87 A radi "evaluacije". Jesu oni bili tamo "eksperimentalno" ali su i bombardovali "eksperimentalno"

Stuka je skracenica od nemackog "Sturzkampflugzeug" (STUrKAmpflugzeug). Englezi to prevode "diving combat aircraft", a mi bismo to najverovatnije rekli "obrusavajuci borbeni avion"
 

Top German Tank Killers...

1 Oberst Hans-Ulrich Rudel 519+ tanks 11 Air to air Kills
2 Ofw. Anton Hübsch 120+ 8 kills
3 Hptm. Gerhard Stüdemann 117
4 Ofw. Alois Wosnitza 104 2 kills
5 Lt. Jacob Jenster 100+
6 Hptm. Hendrik Stahl 100+
7 Lt. Anton Korol 99
8 Oblt. Wilhelm Joswig 88
9 Oblt. Max Diepold 87
10 Lt. Wilhelm Noller 86

Hans Rudel would make good use of the Stuka throughout World War 2 and in it, become the most highly decorated Combat Aviator of all time... Rudel flew 2530 combat missions and destroyed 519+ Tanks, 800+ other Military Vehicles, 150+ Gun Emplacements, 4 Armored Trains, 70 Landing Craft, 1 Battleship (the 'Marat'), 1 Cruiser, 1 Destroyer, and (while flying a FW190) managed to shoot down 11 enemy planes as well...

He was shot down more than 30 times by enemy forces, and innumerable aircraft were brought back to base that were later written off, due to heavy combat damage... He was directly involved in 6 rescue missions to save members of his own squadron from imprisonment... His official medal, the highest in all of Germany, was officially designated as: Golden Oak Wreaths with Swords and Diamonds top the Knights Cross of the Iron Cross...

He was the most highly decorated soldier of the 3rd Reich, and still remains the most highly decorated wartime aviator in the world...


Unlike the situation with the Soviets, German decorations were awarded without regard to rank. And in contrast to the Western Allies, they were never awarded for single acts of conspicuous bravery, but rather for a consistent record of personal gallantry and success in combat.

15 Jan 42: Knight's Cross...
Equivalent of the Congressional Medal of Honor or Britain's Victoria Cross....

14 Apr 43: Knight's Cross with Oakleaves....
Higher level of above, awarded rarely...

25 Nov 44: Knight's Cross with Oakleaves & Swords ....
Won by those who had performed the most extreme acts of personal gallantry on a daily basis.... Awarded very rarely: most often posthumously...

29 Mar 44: Knight's Cross with Oakleaves, Swords & Diamonds...
Extraordinarily prestigious award... Like winning four Congressional Medals of Honor or Victoria Crosses... Back-dated to the time of his escape across the Dnjester when conferred on 25 Nov.....

1 Jan 45: Knight's Cross with Golden Oakleaves, Swords & Diamonds...
Note that the Golden Oakleaves were awarded once during the entire war, the decoration being instituted in answer to Rudel's continuing feats of unprecedented heroism....

It was on the Eastern Front in 1941 that Rudel began to show the world the legend that he would become... In September 1941, Rudel engaged the Russian fleet at Kronstadt, destroying a Russian Cruiser and the Battleship Marat on two separate missions... On September 23rd of 1941, Rudel's Group (1st and 2nd Wing) attacked elements of the Soviet Baltic Fleet in Kronstadt harbor (Leningrad area)... During the attack, Rudel sunk Soviet Battleship "Marat" with 1000kg bomb hitting its ammunition store and breaking the ship in half...

"We've got her ... you must have hit her ammunition store...She is blowing up !" (Rudel's rear gunner Scharnovski over the intercom)...

On Christmas Day, December 24th of 1941, Rudel flew his 500th mission and on December 30th, was decorated with Deutsches Kreuz (German Cross) in Gold by General Freiherr Wolfram von Richthofen himself (Manfred von Richthofen's cousin)... By early 1942, he had flown more than 400 missions; receiving the Luftwaffe Goblet of Honor and upgrading his Iron Cross to an Iron Cross in Gold, and then again to Ritterkreuztrager... It was during 1942 that he defied his commanding officers twice by forcibly reassigning himself back to the Eastern Front, once after being removed to become a training instructor, the other time after being hospitalized for Jaundice...

In 1943, he as sent away yet again to try to investigate a new anti-tank weapon for aircraft... So impressed with this weapon, his Ju-87 Junker was equipped with this new tank-buster cannon, and he quickly reassigned himself to the Eastern Front... On February 10th of 1943, Hans Rudel flew his 1000th mission and became a national hero to the German public.... Rudel was then posted to the new special "Panzerjagdkommando Weiss" unit formed at Briansk to test newly developed tank-busting version of Ju-87 D-3.... Modified Stukas armed with two Rheinmetall-Borsig 37mm (BK) Flak 18 guns were developed at the Luftwaffe's experimental station at Rechlin, Germany... Prototypes were used at first against Soviet landing crafts in the Black Sea and in the space of three weeks, Rudel destroyed 70 such boats... In March of 1943, during a tank battle around Belgorod, Rudel knocked out his first tank with his new tank-busting Stuka...

"... my rear gunner who said that the tank exploded like a bomb and he had seen bits of it crashing down behind us."

On April 14th of 1943, Hans Rudel was awarded Oakleaves to his Knights Cross... This award and presentation by Hitler came with a stipulation added by Rudel himself; that he would not accept it if he was not allowed to continue to fly missions... Captain Hans Rudel's squadron of nine tank-busting Ju-87 G-1 was assigned to support of the 3rd SS Panzer Division "Totenkopf.... On the first day of the Operation Citadel, during his first mission, Rudel knocked out four Soviet tanks and by the evening, his score grew to twelve....

"We are all seized with a kind of passion for the chase from the glorious feeling of having saved much German bloodshed with every tank destroyed."

At the same time, because of Rudel's squadron's success, Panzerstaffels (Tank Destroyer Squadrons) were formed... Based on his experiences, Rudel developed new tactics for Panzerstaffels... He found that the best way to knock out tanks was to hit them in the back (T-34's rear mounted engine and its cooling system did not permit the installation of heavier armor plating) or the side.... Interesting fact is that attacking the back of the tank meant that the plane had to come from the rear flying towards friendly territory - a huge advantage if the plane got damaged during the attack... Later on, more Ju-87 D-3s were converted to tank-busters and were designated as Ju-87 G-1 (often nicknamed Panzerknacker - Tank Buster or Kanonenvogel - Cannon Bird) and started arriving on the Eastern Front in October of 1943...

By September of 1943, he had destroyed his 100th tank after excessive battles on the Russian front... His Knights Cross was again upgraded to include Swords, which again came with a stipulation: that his rear gunner received an upgrade to his Knights cross, personally, by Luftwaffe Field Marshall Goring himself...

By March of 1944, he had been promoted to Major... In early March of 1944, he flew his 1500th mission and was promoted to the rank of Major.... In late March, during a mission, Rudel's squadron was attacked by a squadron of Soviet Lavochkin La-5 fighters.... One Stuka was shot down and crash landed with its crew unharmed... Hans Rudel decided to land and rescue his comrades stuck in the enemy territory.... He landed and rescued his friends but could not take off because of the soft ground.... They were forced to escape on foot towards German lines being chased by the Russians.... Rudel and his comrades reached the river Dniestr and swam 600m in the ice cold water and just before reaching the other side, Rudel's rear gunner drowned.... Eventually, wounded Rudel was the only one who managed to escape and reached German lines.... He then returned to his unit, where he was cheerfully welcomed by his comrades....

Another Version:

March 44: Disaster struck when Rudel landed behind Soviet lines to retrieve a downed German aircrew.... Snow and mud bogged down the airplane, making it impossible to take off..... Approaching Soviet troops forced everyone to flee on foot, but barring their escape was the 900 foot wide river Dnjestr.... The Germans stripped to their longjohns, and swam across the ice-clogged river.... Rudel's close friend and crewman, Erwin Henstchel, drowned a few feet from the far shore.... They had flown 1490 missions together at the time of Hentschel's death.... His body was never recovered....

Rudel was pursued by hundreds of Soviet troops who were intent on collecting the 100,000 ruble bounty which Stalin had placed on his head, and he was shot in the shoulder while they chased him with dogs and on horseback..... Through incredible ingenuity, audacity, and raw determination, Rudel escaped and made his way, alone and unarmed, back home, despite being more than 30 miles behind Soviet lines when he began his 24 hour trek.... He was barefoot and almost naked in the sub-freezing winter weather, without food, compass, or medical attention.... His escape stands as the single most legendary example of personal bravery and luck during the Second World War, but he never fully recovered emotionally from Hentschel's death, for which he blamed himself throughout the remainder of his life.....

On March 29th of 1944, for his bravery, Major Hans-Ulrich Rudel was awarded Diamonds to his Knights Cross with Oakleaves and Swords, the highest German military award..... In November of 1944, while flying near Budapest, he was shot in the thigh but returned to service few days later with his leg in a plaster cast.... On January 1st of 1945, Rudel was awarded the Knights Cross with Golden Oakleaves, Swords and Diamonds, being the only recipient of this award specially created for him... ....Hitler presented this to Rudel on January 1st of 1945, again. Rudel agreed to take the award, yet again with the insistence that he be allowed to continue to fly missions. Hitler was doubtful; he did not want his favorite soldier to be lost against the overwhelming odds. Amazed by Rudels stubbornness in front of an increasingly unstable Hitler, and in awe of a pilot who refused to be grounded during a time of extreme danger, even more surprising to the inner circle of the 3rd Reich hierarchy was that Hitler agreed to the demand. But Hitler later revoked his decision, and ordered Rudel to quit flying. Rudel flew on the sly with his unit, accrediting his kills to the unit, was discovered, reprimanded, removed from flying missions, and naturally, then found a way back into the air.... He also had racked up a total of 460 destroyed enemy tanks....

In February of 1945, Rudel was seriously wounded and his right thigh was shattered by anti-aircraft fire near Lebus.... He managed to land in German held territory and was quickly taken to the field hospital, where his leg was amputated..... Rudel was then taken to the hospital in Berlin, where he had an artificial limb fitted and then returned to his squadron, but then was promptly back up in the air again with an artificial leg... Eventually, Rudel destroyed 23 tanks while using this prosthetic limb....

In the last days of the war, Colonel Rudel commanded the oldest and the best known close assault / support Stuka group - Schlachtgeschwader 2 Immelmann.... He was still operating with his unit in last days of war on the Eastern Front.... At the end of the war, Rudel wanted to fly a suicide attack with his squadron but his superior ordered him not to take off because "he might be needed later", which might have been the only reason why he didn't do so.... He also volunteered to fly his Stuka into Berlin in May of 1945 to rescue Hitler from the Red Army....

On his last mission, Rudel ordered his squadron to crash-land so that the Allied Forces would not be able to use the planes for their own purposes.... He was captured by American troops, who were so impressed by his wartime feats, absolute defiance and courage, even when captured, that the American guards befriended him.... Regardless of this short-lived companionship, Rudel successfully managed to escape from a P.O.W. camp shortly after the war....

Rudel was extremely fortunate to avoid capture by the Soviets, who had put a 100,000 ruble bounty on his head, payable dead or alive... Many other pilots who had the misfortune of being captured by the Soviets, or who were handed over to them by the Americans later, during the Summer of 45, suffered up to 11 years of forced labor in the Siberian gulags after the war... Hundreds of thousands of German soldiers, from generals to privates, died in post-war captivity behind the Iron Curtain.... There has never been a complete accounting, and many are still listed by the modern German government as MIAs....

For some time, he resided in Argentina, where he became associates of other German exiles and established some degree of influence with the quasi-fascist President Juan Peron....

Evo par linkova o Rudelu

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/gen9.htm
http://www.pilotenbunker.de/Stuka/Rudel/rudel.htm
http://members.aol.com/ab763/rudel.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Ulrich_Rudel
 

              Kad mogu ovi u Skupstini, mogu i ja da dam "repliku":
              Incindent iz jeseni 1937. u kome je nastradala eskadrila iz 1.StG "Maks Imelman"
le istinit dogadjaj.
              Prema mojim podacima, u decembru 1937. jedno odeljenje od 3 Ju-87 A1 i
dvadeset posada upuceno je u Spaniju. Sledeca grupa je bila sastavljena od nekoliko
ranih modela Ju-87 B1 koji su u oktobru 1938. poslati na isto ratiste. Naravno da su se
posade smenjivale zbog sticanja ratnog iskustva. U tim "eksperimentalnim" napadima
prvo je tucen grad Teruela, a zatim i Valensija, Taragona i Barselona.
              Za Rudela sam namerno rekao da "postoji prica" jer sam taj podatak nasao
samo na jednom mestu, pa sam i sam bio sumnjicav ali nisam tek tako to odbacio.
             Inace, jedna zanimljivost: da li ste znali da je na podu pilotske kabine u Stuki
postojao prozor kroz koji je pilot mogao odlicno videti metu ?

Nisam znao za taj prozor mada.... na tom mestu ispod je bila bomba tako da sumnjam da je mogao ista da vidi. Kod njega je zanimljiv stajni trap kioji se odbacivao eksplozivnim punjenjima za potrebe prinudnog sletanja.

Inace u Spaniju su isli i Hs123 koji je takodje koristen za obrusavbanje pa zato mozda postoji zbrka oko broja jednomotornih aviona za obrusavanje.

              U grckoj mitologiji se pominje prorocica Kasandra koja je sve tacno predvidjala,
ali joj ipak niko nije verovao. E, sad shvatam kako se osecala !
              Prozor na podu kabine Stuke se pominje na mnogim mestima, izmedju ostalog
i u knjizi Lena Dejtona "Lovac", delu ko je dalo najbolji opis Bitke za Britaniju i usput
srusilo mnoge mitove iz tog vremena (u koje sam i ja verovao).
              Mozda bas i nije neki dokaz ali oni koji imaju igricu Il-2 Sturmovik Forgetten
battles neka jednom "lete" na Stuki i naci ce taj famozni prozor.

bravo momci svasta ja ovdje nauci