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   nisam ni ja bash previshe jak u kvantnoj fizici  :mrgreen: . otprilike ,  ako imamo cesticu i njenu talasnu funkciju psi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_function - ta talasna funkcija opisuje verovatnocu da se cestica nalazi u nekom stanju .

    ta talasna funkcija prema sredingerovoj jednacini http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger_equation  odredjuje stanje nekog  sistema i zavisi i od vremena kao parametra (otprilike ,veca je verovatnoca da budete  u kafani u 8 uvece nego u 8 ujutru   :mrgreen:).

  poshto je kao shto rekoh talasna funkcija - funkcija verovatnoce , mi ne mozemo da znamo tachnu poziciju neke cestice .ako izvrshimo merenje - onda dobijamo nove podatke o njoj . tada se talasna funkcija cestice menja - samim cinom merenja  :!:

postavlja se pitanje da li to shto ste izmerili stanje nekog sistema menja i sam sistem . drugim recima , ako se probudite ujutru pijani u blatu ispred vec pomenute kafane  :mrgreen: ,da li ste time preshli u neki drugi svet - svet gde vi niste vi  . odgovor je da vi to ne mozete da znate   :!:  onog trenutka kad pochnete da se budite pred kafanama , vi shvatate da ste alkos  :mrgreen:  i covek koji izgleda poptpuno isto kao vi ali se budi u svojoj kuci je potpuno drugaciji objekt od vas.

 
 ako bi se vi nekako vratili u sudbonosno vreme kad ste odlucivali da udjete u kafanu (nekim vremeplovom npr)  vashe shanse da se ponovo napijete bi bile vece nego prvi put - jer ste u medjuvremenu postali alkoholicar i zavisnik  :D . znachi ,vasha talasna funkcija bi se razlikovala od talasne funkcije coveka koji je nekad naivno stajao pred kafanom i razmishljao kuda da krene .  :D


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Е, ал' га објасни... :mrgreen:
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jbg ,ja sam dao link - tamo je sve jednostavnije objashnjeno  :mrgreen:
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I'm Victoria's secret!

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hocu da vidim izvodjenje  :mrgreen:
Milanovica bi bolje skontali nego ovo :P


Milanovic je inace profa koji drzi Kvantnu na ETF-u i skroz je izgubljen
« Poslednja izmena: 04. Sep 2009, 22:25:56 od toza vampir »
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Sum myself up in three words? Well, I suppose it would have to be: kller, alien, vagina.
I'm so goth I shit bats!
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Fly Baby, fly...

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Bas lepo sto pricamo o vremenu a da u istodobno ne znamo sta je to vreme. Mozda ono i ne postoji tj. ono je neka nasa uobrazilja nastala iz nase nemogucnosti da drugacije percipiramo svet.
Mislim da je putovanje kroz vreme sasvim moguce, ali to nije to kako ga mi zamisljamo i kako se u filmovima prikazuje. Pre ce biti da postoji bezbroj paralelnih procesa i mogucnosti toka dogadjaja ali isto tako i bezbroj sukcesivnih procesa i mogucnosti dogadjaja. Jednom recju bezbroj univerzuma. Mi samo ne znamo da putujemo kroz njih sem na jedan nacin, tj. u jednom pravcu i mislimo da smo to sto mislimo. Mozda postoji bezbroj nas i bezbroj svega u bezbroj univerzuma.
Laku noc, posle ovoga moram nesto da drmnem. :chuckel: :wave:
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Izgledas mi kao lutkica iz Trsta ;)

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   nisam ni ja bash previshe jak u kvantnoj fizici  :mrgreen: . otprilike ,  ako imamo cesticu i njenu talasnu funkciju psi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_function - ta talasna funkcija opisuje verovatnocu da se cestica nalazi u nekom stanju .

    ta talasna funkcija prema sredingerovoj jednacini http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger_equation  odredjuje stanje nekog  sistema i zavisi i od vremena kao parametra (otprilike ,veca je verovatnoca da budete  u kafani u 8 uvece nego u 8 ujutru   :mrgreen:).

  poshto je kao shto rekoh talasna funkcija - funkcija verovatnoce , mi ne mozemo da znamo tachnu poziciju neke cestice .ako izvrshimo merenje - onda dobijamo nove podatke o njoj . tada se talasna funkcija cestice menja - samim cinom merenja  :!:

postavlja se pitanje da li to shto ste izmerili stanje nekog sistema menja i sam sistem . drugim recima , ako se probudite ujutru pijani u blatu ispred vec pomenute kafane  :mrgreen: ,da li ste time preshli u neki drugi svet - svet gde vi niste vi  . odgovor je da vi to ne mozete da znate   :!:  onog trenutka kad pochnete da se budite pred kafanama , vi shvatate da ste alkos  :mrgreen:  i covek koji izgleda poptpuno isto kao vi ali se budi u svojoj kuci je potpuno drugaciji objekt od vas.

 
 ako bi se vi nekako vratili u sudbonosno vreme kad ste odlucivali da udjete u kafanu (nekim vremeplovom npr)  vashe shanse da se ponovo napijete bi bile vece nego prvi put - jer ste u medjuvremenu postali alkoholicar i zavisnik  :D . znachi ,vasha talasna funkcija bi se razlikovala od talasne funkcije coveka koji je nekad naivno stajao pred kafanom i razmishljao kuda da krene .  :D

 :P :P :P

Ne vredi, koji god komentar da napišem na ovu genijalštinu čini mi se da nije dovoljno dobar, brišem evo po treći put.  :P
Ne, nisam ironičan, ti si bre BF car.  :mrgreen:
Jeste da te pola nisam razumeo... ali to više nije ni bitno... bitno je da sam dobio neopisivu želju da odem u kafanu.   :mrgreen:

Znaš kako, ja ću nastaviti da postavljam tekstove na ovu temu. A ti u svakom trenutku izrazi svoje neslaganje. (po mogućstvu u istom maniru kao u prethodnom post-u  :mrgreen: ) jer ja nisam dovoljno kompetentan da ocenim koji tekst valja a koji ne.


Dole, imas boldovanu jednu uvodnu rečenicu, voleo bih da mi objasniš kako je Kaku zaobišao Ajnštajnovu teoriju ako je poznato da je u suprotnosti sa kvantnom fizikom.


The Physics of Time Travel
Is it real, or is it fable?


In H.G. Wells’ novel, The Time Machine, our protagonist jumped into a special chair with blinking lights, spun a few dials, and found himself catapulted several hundred thousand years into the future, where England has long disappeared and is now inhabited by strange creatures called the Morlocks and Eloi. That may have made great fiction, but physicists have always scoffed at the idea of time travel, considering it to be the realm of cranks, mystics, and charlatans, and with good reason.

However, rather remarkable advances in quantum gravity are reviving the theory; it has now become fair game for theoretical physicists writing in the pages of Physical Review magazine. One stubborn problem with time travel is that it is riddled with several types of paradoxes. For example, there is the paradox of the man with no parents, i.e. what happens when you go back in time and kill your parents before you are born? Question: if your parents died before you were born, then how could you have been born to kill them in the first place?

There is also the paradox of the man with no past. For example, let’s say that a young inventor is trying futilely to build a time machine in his garage. Suddenly, an elderly man appears from nowhere and gives the youth the secret of building a time machine. The young man then becomes enormously rich playing the stock market, race tracks, and sporting events because he knows the future. Then, as an old man, he decides to make his final trip back to the past and give the secret of time travel to his youthful self. Question: where did the idea of the time machine come from?

There is also the paradox of the man who is own mother (my apologies to Heinlein.) “Jane” is left at an orphanage as a foundling. When “Jane” is a teenager, she falls in love with a drifter, who abandons her but leaves her pregnant. Then disaster strikes. She almost dies giving birth to a baby girl, who is then mysteriously kidnapped. The doctors find that Jane is bleeding badly, but, oddly enough, has both sex organs. So, to save her life, the doctors convert “Jane” to “Jim.”

“Jim” subsequently becomes a roaring drunk, until he meets a friendly bartender (actually a time traveler in disguise) who wisks “Jim” back way into the past. “Jim” meets a beautiful teenage girl, accidentally gets her pregnant with a baby girl. Out of guilt, he kidnaps the baby girl and drops her off at the orphanage. Later, “Jim” joins the time travelers corps, leads a distinguished life, and has one last dream: to disguise himself as a bartender to meet a certain drunk named “Jim” in the past. Question: who is “Jane’s” mother, father, brother, sister, grand- father, grandmother, and grandchild?

Not surprisingly, time travel has always been considered impossible. After all, Newton believed that time was like an arrow; once fired, it soared in a straight, undeviating line. One second on the earth was one second on Mars. Clocks scattered throughout the universe beat at the same rate. Einstein gave us a much more radical picture. According to Einstein, time was more like a river, which meandered around stars and galaxies, speeding up and slowing down as it passed around massive bodies. One second on the earth was Not one second on Mars. Clocks scattered throughout the universe beat to their own distant drummer.

However, before Einstein died, he was faced with an embarrassing problem. Einstein’s neighbor at Princeton, Kurt Goedel, perhaps the greatest mathematical logician of the past 500 years, found a new solution to Einstein’s own equations which allowed for time travel! The “river of time” now had whirlpools in which time could wrap itself into a circle. Goedel’s solution was quite ingenious: it postulated a universe filled with a rotating fluid. Anyone walking along the direction of rotation would find themselves back at the starting point, but backwards in time!

In his memoirs, Einstein wrote that he was disturbed that his equations contained solutions that allowed for time travel. But he finally concluded: the universe does not rotate, it ex- pands (i.e. as in the Big Bang theory) and hence Goedel’s solution could be thrown out for “physical reasons.” (Apparently, if the Big Bang was rotating, then time travel would be possible throughout the universe!)

Then in 1963, Roy Kerr, a New Zealand mathematician, found a solution of Einstein’s equations for a rotating black hole, which had bizarre properties. The black hole would not collapse to a point (as previously thought) but into a spinning ring (of neutrons). The ring would be circulating so rapidly that centrifugal force would keep the ring from collapsing under gravity. The ring, in turn, acts like the Looking Glass of Alice. Anyone walking through the ring would not die, but could pass through the ring into an alternate universe. Since then, hundreds of other “wormhole” solutions have been found to Einstein’s equations. These wormholes connect not only two regions of space (hence the name) but also two regions of time as well. In principle, they can be used as time machines.

Recently, attempts to add the quantum theory to gravity (and hence create a “theory of everything”) have given us some insight into the paradox problem. In the quantum theory, we can have multiple states of any object. For example, an electron can exist simultaneously in different orbits (a fact which is responsible for giving us the laws of chemistry). Similarly, Schrodinger’s famous cat can exist simultaneously in two possible states: dead and alive. So by going back in time and altering the past, we merely create a parallel universe. So we are changing someone ELSE’s past by saving, say, Abraham Lincoln from being assassinated at the Ford Theater, but our Lincoln is still dead. In this way, the river of time forks into two separate rivers. But does this mean that we will be able to jump into H.G. Wells’ machine, spin a dial, and soar several hundred thousand years into England’s future? No. There are a number of difficult hurdles to overcome.

First, the main problem is one of energy. In the same way that a car needs gasoline, a time machine needs to have fabulous amounts of energy. One either has to harness the power of a star, or to find something called “exotic” matter (which falls up, rather than down) or find a source of negative energy. (Physicists once thought that negative energy was impossible. But tiny amounts of negative energy have been experimentally verified for something called the Casimir effect, i.e. the energy created by two parallel plates). All of these are exceedingly difficult to obtain in large quantities, at least for several more centuries!

Then there is the problem of stability. The Kerr black hole, for example, may be unstable if one falls through it. Similarly, quantum effects may build up and destroy the wormhole before you enter it. Unfortunately, our mathematics is not powerful enough to answer the question of stability because you need a “theory of everything” which combines both quantum forces and gravity. At present, superstring theory is the leading candidate for such a theory (in fact, it is the ONLY candidate; it really has no rivals at all). But superstring theory, which happens to be my specialty, is still to difficult to solve completely. The theory is well-defined, but no one on earth is smart enough to solve it.

Interestingly enough, Stephen Hawking once opposed the idea of time travel. He even claimed he had “empirical” evidence against it. If time travel existed, he said, then we would have been visited by tourists from the future. Since we see no tourists from the future, ergo: time travel is not possible. Because of the enormous amount of work done by theoretical physicists within the last 5 years or so, Hawking has since changed his mind, and now believes that time travel is possible (although not necessarily practical). (Furthermore, perhaps we are simply not very interesting to these tourists from the future. Anyone who can harness the power of a star would consider us to be very primitive. Imagine your friends coming across an ant hill. Would they bend down to the ants and give them trinkets, books, medicine, and power? Or would some of your friends have the strange urge to step on a few of them?)

In conclusion, don’t turn someone away who knocks at your door one day and claims to be your future great-great-great grandchild. They may be right.




Hyperspace and a Theory of Everything
What lies beyond our 4 dimensions?


When I was a child, I used to visit the Japanese Tea Garden in San Francisco. I would spend hours fascinated by the carp, who lived in a very shallow pond just inches beneath the lily pads, just beneath my fingers, totally oblivious to the universe above them.

I would ask myself a question only a child could ask: what would it be like to be a carp? What a strange world it would be! I imagined that the pond would be an entire universe, one that is two-dimensional in space. The carp would only be able to swim forwards and backwards, and left and right. But I imagined that the concept of “up”, beyond the lily pads, would be totally alien to them. Any carp scientist daring to talk about “hyperspace”, i.e. the third dimension “above” the pond, would immediately be labelled a crank. I wondered what would happen if I could reach down and grab a carp scientist and lift it up into hyperspace. I thought what a wondrous story the scientist would tell the others! The carp would babble on about unbelievable new laws of physics: beings who could move without fins. Beings who could breathe without gills. Beings who could emit sounds without bubbles. I then wondered: how would a carp scientist know about our existence? One day it rained, and I saw the rain drops forming gentle ripples on the surface of the pond.
Then I understood.

The carp could see rippling shadows on the surface of the pond. The third dimension would be invisible to them, but vibrations in the third dimensions would be clearly visible. These ripples might even be felt by the carp, who would invent a silly concept to describe this, called “force.” They might even give these “forces” cute names, such as light and gravity. We would laugh at them, because, of course, we know there is no “force” at all, just the rippling of the water.

Today, many physicists believe that we are the carp swimming in our tiny pond, blissfully unaware of invisible, unseen uni- verses hovering just above us in hyperspace. We spend our life in three spatial dimensions, confident that what we can see with our telescopes is all there is, ignorant of the possibility of 10 dimensional hyperspace. Although these higher dimensions are invisible, their “ripples” can clearly be seen and felt. We call these ripples gravity and light. The theory of hyperspace, however, languished for many decades for lack of any physical proof or application. But the thoery, once considered the province of eccentrics and mystics, is being revived for a simple reason: it may hold the key to the greatest theory of all time, the “theory of everything.”

Einstein spent the last 30 years of his life futilely chasing after this theory, the Holy Grail of physics. He wanted a theory that could explain the four fundamental forces that govern the universe: gravity, electromagnetism, and the two nuclear forces (weak and strong). It was supposed to be the crowning achievement of the last 2,000 years of science, ever since the Greeks asked what the world was made of. He was searching for an equation, perhaps no more than one-inch long, that could be placed on a T-shirt, but was so powerful it could explain every- thing from the Big Bang, exploding stars, to atoms and molecules, to the lilies of the field.

He wanted to read the mind of God. Ultimately, Einstein failed in his mission. In fact, he was shunned by many of his younger compatriots, who would taunt him with the ditty, “What God has torn asunder, no man can put together.” But perhaps Einstein is now having his revenge. For the past decade, there has been furious research on merging the four fundamental forces into a single theory, especially one that can meld general relativity (which explains gravity) with the quantum theory (which can explain the two nuclear forces and electro- magnetism).

The problem is that relativity and the quantum theory are precise opposites. General relativity is a theory of the very large: galaxies, quasars, black holes, and even the Big Bang. It is based on bending the beautiful four dimensional fabric of space and time. The quantum theory, by contrast, is a theory of the very small, i.e. the world of sub-atomic particles. It is based on discrete, tiny packets of energy called quanta. Over the past 50 years, many attempts have been tried to unite these polar opposites, and have failed. The road to the Unified Field Theory, the Theory of Everything, is littered with the corpses of failed attempts. The key to the puzzle may be hyperspace. In 1915, when Einstein said space-time was four dimensional and was warped and rippled, he showed that this bending produced a “force” called gravity. In 1921, Theodr Kaluza wrote that ripples of the fifth dimension could be viewed as light. Like the fish seeing the ripples in hyperspace moving in their world, many physicists believe that light is created by ripples in five-dimensional space-time.
But what about dimensions higher than 5?

In principle, if we add more and more dimensions, we can ripple and bend them in different ways, thereby creating more forces. In 10 dimensions, in fact, we can accomodate all four fundamental forces! Actually, it’s not that simple. By naively going to 10 dimensions, we also introduce a host of esoteric mathematical inconsistencies (e.g. infinities and anomalies) that have killed all previous theories. The only theory which has survived every challenge posed to it is called superstring theory, in which this 10 dimensional universe is inhabited by tiny strings.

In fact, in one swoop, this 10 dimensional string theory gives us a simple, compelling unification of all forces. Like a violin string, these tiny strings can vibrate and create resonances or “notes”. That explains why there are so many sub- atomic particles: they are just notes on a superstring. (This seems so simple, but in the 1950s, physicists were drowning in an avalanche of sub-atomic particles. J.R. Oppenheim- er, who helped build the atomic bomb, even said, out of sheer frustration, that the Nobel Prize should go to the physicist who does NOT discover a new particle that year!) Similarly, when the string moves in space and time, it warps the space around it just as Einstein predicted. Thus, in a remarkably simple picture, we can unify gravity (as the bending of space caused by moving strings) with the other quantum forces (now viewed as vibrations of the string).

Of course, any theory with this power and majesty has a problem. This theory, because it is a theory of everything, is really a theory of Creation. Thus, to fully test the theory requires re-creating Creation! At first, this might seem hopelessly impossible. We can barely leave the earth’s puny gravity, let alone create universes in the laboratory. But there is a way out to this seemingly intractable problem. A theory of everything is also a theory of the everyday. Thus, this theory, when fully completed, will be able to explain the existence of protons, atoms, molecules, even DNA. Thus, the key is to fully solve the theory and test the theory against the known properties of the universe. At present, no one on earth is smart enough to complete the theory. The theory is perfectly well-defined, but you see, superstring theory is 21st Century physics that fell accidentally into the 20th century. It was discovered purely by accident, when two young physicists were thumbing through a mathematics book. The theory is so elegant and powerful, we were never “destined” to see it in the 20th century. The problem is that 21st century mathematics has not yet been invented yet. But since physicists are genetically predisposed to be opti- mists, I am confident that we will solve the theory someday soon. Perhaps a young person reading this article will be so inspired by this story that he or she will finish the theory. I can’t wait!

Izvor: mkaku

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You sharpen the human appetite to the point where it can split atoms with its desire; you build egos the size of cathedrals; fiber-optically connect the world to every eager impulse; grease even the dullest dreams with these dollar-green, gold-plated fantasies, until every human becomes an aspiring emperor, becomes his own God...
...and where can you go from there? 

OPERATION: Smile
12 MAR 2012 | 16 MAR 2012
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ovo sa putovanjem u proslost pomocu ajnstajnovih teorija je odavno opovrgnuto . naime , fizicari odavno znaju da ajnstajn nije bio u pravu   :-$ , samo to nije politichki koreknto reci  :mrgreen: . naime , kvantna fizika ne smatra da je vreme linija (pa da se po njoj putuje napred ,a mozda i nazad  :mrgreen: ) vec se radi o kompleksnoj velicini .

  dacu primer : recimo da vi hipotetichki napravite vremeplov i vratite se tachno u 12:10 15.oktobra 1992. svet u koji bi se vratili ne bi bio isti kao svet u kome ste nekad ziveli tog datuma (ako ste uopshte ziveli) . sledstveno tome  - vi ne bi mogli da utichete na dogadjaje u ovom svetu - da promenite sopstvenu proslost tako shto bi premaltili profesora matematike koji vas je mrzeo  :mrgreen: :mrgreen: - vec bi jednostavno delovali u jednom novom svetu . chak i kad bi sreli sebe kakvi ste bili pre 17 godina - to ne bi bili vi ,nego samo vasha mladja kopija ali sa sopstvenim mislima i osecanjima. chak i ako bi ste je ubili ,to ne znachi da bi vi nestali kao u nekom SF filmu .  :[115]:

Sve teoretski, al i ja verujem u ovo sto si naveo, al sam rekao. ja samo verujem u to
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Ako te uhvati bes ako stojis ti sedi,ako sedis ti lezi,ako lezis ti se polij vodom,voda ce da odnese tvoj bes...

Svest nije samo materijalna manifestacija, potrazi na interenetu

Dzoni, ne budi Kristal.

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Е, ал' га објасни... :mrgreen:

Po srpski, uz prepoznatljiv primer  :mrgreen:
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Ako te uhvati bes ako stojis ti sedi,ako sedis ti lezi,ako lezis ti se polij vodom,voda ce da odnese tvoj bes...

Svest nije samo materijalna manifestacija, potrazi na interenetu

Dzoni, ne budi Kristal.

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Svakodnevni prolaznik


ЗА КРСТ ЧАСНИ И СЛОБОДУ ЗЛАТНУ!!!

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... као прво, као што неко већ рече - да би смо разумели ово и сличне ствари, прво морамо да разумемо време, као и појам времена као таквог ... време, као што неко рече, није линеарна величина, и остале (2, или можда више!!!) димензија истог могу се сврстати под разумевање појма простор ... тачније, проток тог истог времена у неком другом простору, тј. димензији ... ово је врло опсежно објашњено у књизи "Теорија свега", где се на врло очигледан и практичан начин објашњава и приближава појам просторно-временског континуума, деформације равни дефинисане величинама као што су простор и време, као и трансдимензиона путовања помоћу "црних рупа" , или "црвоточина" ... сабијање времена, простора, као и подпросторног континуума могу да доведу до спајања различитих временских тачака у оквиру исте просторне равни, што би за резултат могло да има трансдимензионална и подпросторна путовања ... практично, спајањем 2 (или више тачака) једне исте просторне равни (у истој димензији) могли бисмо да створимо интердимензионални мост ка разлитим тачкама једне исте димензије, однодно интердимензиони тунел између више димензија одједном ... ово би укратко, било и објашњење интердимензионалних мостова ... опет кажем, за ово је потребно специфично схватање појма време, као и појма простор ...
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Makijavelizam je stanje uma - sve ostalo je iluzorno!!!




Edit by chelavi1: Regulisana velika slova u potpisu.
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Zodijak Capricorn
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Ne samo pojma vreme i prostor vec i energije. Sva ta tri pojma koristimo i zivimo sa njima i u njima ali uopste ne znamo sta su, a tek ne poznajemo onaj fundamentalni zakon koji ih drzi u odredjenom odnosu. To je onaj zakon koji ne da da vreme ide u nazad, da smo istovremeno na dva mesta i da se na pr. zirafa pretvori iznenadno u stolnu lampu ili u mlaz protona ili bilo sta drugo.

Prema tome gospodo, uzivajte u svetu koji vas okruzuje. :wave:
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