ма ужасан је....у - жа - сан

нису украли и слагали само то ... пази сад!

Macedonia dispute

After the independence of the Socialist Republic of Macedonia from Yugoslavia in 1991, the White Tower (Бела Кула, Bela Kula in Macedonian Slav) became a symbol of the dispute between Greece and the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia over the name "Macedonia" and the symbols of Macedonian history (see also Vergina Sun). According to the New York Times, a version of the new country's currency began to appear in January of 1992. The bills circulating contained an image of Thessaloniki, depicting the White Tower. The bills prompted "outrage in Athens and... in the capital of Greek Macedonia [Thessaloniki]".[3] However,those bills were never used.

Macedonian Slav nationalist groups have advanced territorial claims over what they call "Aegean Macedonia," and these groups have used the White Tower as a symbol of their claims that Thessaloniki (which they call Солун Solun) ought to be part of a greater Republic of Macedonia. Since the 1995 agreement between Greece and the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, however, it does not appear that the government of the Republic of Macedonia has given these groups official encouragement.



Vergina Sun
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Vergina Sun flag as used by the three peripheries of Greek Macedonia.


The official flag of the Republic of Macedonia between 1992 and 1995.


The orginal 12 ray 'Vergina Sun' from Vergina in Greece



Interpretations of the symbol

The significance of the Vergina Sun is unclear. Archaeologists do not agree whether the sun was a symbol of Macedon, an emblem of Philip's Argead dynasty, a religious symbol representing the Twelve Gods of Olympus, or simply a decorative design. Andronikos repeatedly interprets it as the "emblem of the Macedonian dynasty", though Eugene Borza has pointed out that it is widely used in ancient Macedonian art [3].

John Paul Adams cites its long-established use as a decorative element in Greek art (as well as in the Middle East and elsewhere) and concludes that it cannot definitively be said that it was either a "royal" or "national" Macedonian symbol. [4]

Sixteen and eight-pointed suns often appear in Macedonian and Hellenistic coins and shields of that period[5]. There are also a number of depictions of Athenian hoplites[6] bearing an identical sixteen-pointed symbol on their armor, though before Andronikos' discovery in 1977 the symbol had been regarded as a simple ornament.

The Vergina Sun or Star of Vergina is a symbol of a stylised star with sixteen rays. It was unearthed in 1977 during archaeological excavations in Vergina, in northern Greece, by Professor Manolis Andronikos. He discovered it on a golden larnax in the tombs of the kings of the ancient kingdom of Macedon.

Andronikos described the symbol variously as a "star", a "starburst" or as a "sunburst". [1] He proposed that the larnax on which it appears belonged to King Philip II of Macedon, the father of Alexander the Great; other historians have suggested that the tomb actually belonged to the later King Philip III Arrhidaeus. [2] The larnax is on display at the archaeological museum in Vergina, very close to where it was found. Another version of the Vergina Sun, with 12 rays, was found on the larnax of Olympias, the mother of Alexander the Great.

Following the discovery of the larnax, the Vergina Sun was widely adopted by Greeks as a symbol of continuity between ancient Macedonian culture and modern Greece. The Vergina Sun on a blue background is commonly used as an official emblem of the three peripheries, the prefectures and the municipalities of the region of Macedonia. It is also used by organisations of the Greek Macedonian diaspora, such as the Pan-Macedonian Association [7], as well as numerous commercial enterprises.

The symbol had also been adopted by organisations in the overseas Slavic Macedonian diaspora, and it was adopted by some nationalists in Yugoslavia's Socialist Republic of Macedonia. When Yugoslavia broke up in 1991-1992, the newly independent and renamed Republic of Macedonia designated the Vergina Sun as its national symbol and displayed it on its new flag.

The decision caused controversy both within the republic and outside it in its relations with Greece. The republic's large Albanian minority complained that it was an ethnic symbol of the Slavic Macedonian majority and was not suitable for a multiethnic state. [8] Greek opposition was even more vehement. The Greek government and many Greek people, especially in the Greek province of Macedonia, saw it as the misappropriation of a Hellenic symbol and a direct claim on the legacy of Philip II. [9]. A Greek Foreign Ministry spokesman said in January 1995 that "the symbol is Greek and has been stolen." Nationalists on both sides subsequently associated the symbol with the (much later) Star of Bethlehem and have argued that their respective communities have used the symbol for sacred purposes before the Vergina discovery. [8] The Greek position on the symbol has been supported by some abroad, such as the former United States Secretary of State, Henry Kissinger, who reportedly told a questioner:
“    I believe that Greece is right to object and I agree with Athens. The reason is that I know history, which is not the case with most of the others, including most of the Government and Administration in Washington. The strength of the Greek case is that of the history which I must say that Athens has not used so far with success.[10]    ”

Others have argued that the symbol has been appropriated by the Greeks as a means of asserting continuity between modern Greece and the ancient Greek states. Peter Hill, a professor of Slavic studies at the University of Hamburg who has published extensively on the Macedonian Slavs and their language and actively promoted their cause, states that
“    The Star of Vergina is not a Greek symbol, except in the sense that it happens to have been found on the territory of the present-day Greek state. The modern day Greeks appropriated ancient Greek cultural symbols because they happen to live in more or less the same part of the world as the ancient Greeks did." [11]    ”

Speaking on the BBC World Service's The World Today programme, archaeologist Bajana Mojsov from the Republic of Macedonia said that "the symbolic weight attached to the Vergina Star was archaeologically absurd - but politically inevitable," arguing:
“    The star of Vergina applies to the 3rd century BC northern Greece - a very different situation, not related to the 21st century AD. I think it's modern politics, and we're witnessing the use of an archaeological symbol for history that it's really not related to.[12]    ”

Although the authorities in Skopje denied any ulterior motives, the flag became a major issue in the wider political dispute between the two countries of the early 1990s (see Foreign relations of the Republic of Macedonia). Greek objections led to the flag being banned from use in a variety of places, including the United Nations, the Olympic Games and offices of the Republic of Macedonia in the United States and Australia. [8]

In response to the dispute, the symbol was introduced in many new contexts in Greece. It was added to the Greek 100 drachma coin [4] in early 1992 and appeared on the arm patches of police in Athens. The Thessaloniki based Makedonia television station used it to replace the letter omicron in its logo and the Bank of Macedonia-Thrace adopted it as its symbol, as did some Greek military units. [13] In February 1993 the Greek parliament passed a bill designating the Vergina Sun as an official Greek national symbol. [8] In July 1995, Greece lodged a request with the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO) for exclusive intellectual property rights to the Vergina Sun. [14] The dispute was partially resolved in October 1995 under a compromise brokered by the United Nations. The symbol was removed from the flag of the Republic of Macedonia as part of an agreement to establish diplomatic and economic relations between the two sides. It was replaced by a new flag, which is currently in use, displaying a stylized eight-pointed sun which is broadly reminiscent of various Japanese military flags. The discovery of a Bronze Age stone carving of a similar eight-pointed sun, found in an archaeological excavation at Kratovo in the Republic of Macedonia, has led to suggestions that this eight-pointed symbol (rather than the sixteen-pointed version found at Vergina) could be a truer symbol of ancient Macedonian culture,[15] despite the fact that Kratovo lies in what was the ancient land of Paionia, which was only incorporated into Macedonia many centuries after the end of the Bronze Age. The eight-pointed symbol is also used by Aromanians in the republic. [16]

Outside of the Republic of Macedonia, some nationalist groups continue to use the Vergina Sun as a symbol of Macedonia's Slavs, despite the change in the Republic of Macedonia's flag. In Canada, for instance, the United Macedonians Organization uses the sun as part of its logo [17].

In Albania, the Vergina Sun was adopted as an official seal of the predominantly ethnic Macedonian (Macedonian Slavs) municipality of Liqenas (Macedonian language: Pustec) in Mala Prespa and Golo Brdo region

OK, da pozdravim i Adama usput da se ne naljuti


@ krofna

Ja u nijednom momentu nisam napisao da Makedonija nije vozobnovila svoju drzavnost na zasedanju ASNOM-a. Sasvim je normalno da se odredi i sluzbeni jezik koji ce se upotrebljavati u drzavi, tako da …
Sto se tice Kira Gligorova papir koji si izvadio datira iz ’42 za vreme drugog svetskog rata i okupacije Bugara. U vreme kraljevine na tom istom papiru bi pisalo srbin. Jebiga okupatori to jedino i znaju raditi.

Samo nesto mi mnogo bre razvodnjavate teorije i istoriju.
Jedni pisu da su Makedonci u stvari bugari, drugi da su srbi, treci da su grci.
I jednim i drugim i trecima mogu samo da porucim   

Na pitanje koje si postavio, odgovor je slobodno i samo napred…



Pogledaj karte pre balkanskih ratova pa ce ti biti jasno i zasto ....





Momak malo mesas stvari.
Necu da polemiziram, samo cu te upitati.
Ohridska Arhiepiskopija je nekanonski ukinuta u 18 veku. Objasni mi kako je za celo vreme postojala i bugarska crkva. Hoces da kazes da su bugari toliko “veliki” narod pa su imali dve crkve.

Druga stvar Samuil je brsjackog porekla sa okoline Prespe. Isti je ratovao sa tadasnjim bugarskim carstvom, i osvojio je medju druge i teritoriju danasnje Srbije. Jebiga ko zna koliko % makedonske krvi tece u vama 





Cirilicu su sozdali braca Kiril i Metodij. Rodjeni u Solunu...
Solun nikad nije bio bugarski grad...


@ bambyle

Covece dosta citiras grcke sajtove.
Izvor ti je subjektivno motiviran i objektivnost je jednaka nuli.
Interes grka lezi u drugom pravcu, i skretanje sa drugih problema.
Nakon drugog svetskog rata u Grckoj se desio egzodus i prognanstvo Makedonaca iz Egejskog dela Makedonije. Oko million Makedonaca je bilo proterano od svojih domova i rasprsnuto po belom svetu. Tu lezi grcka prica… nema Makedonaca, nema egzodusa, nema repatrijacija imota.


I na kraju, Anticki Makedonci nisu bili Grci, vec poseban narod sa posebnom kulturom i istorijom. End off story   

Obradovao si se novom prezimenu i nastavku ic? Ma nema potrebe, lepo smo utvrdili da nismo ni braca ni prijatelji...
Kad ono makedonci su u stvari Siptari...

Canalane,

Ne kapiraš. Tema o Makedoniji je otvorena kako bi neki lečili ovdašnje domaće nacionalne frustracije i komplekse.

A ima mnogo lepših tema. Da npr. gledamo kako ćemo za 5,10 i 15 godina da prodajemo ajvar, rakije i vina celoj Evropi i da završimo već jednom taj nesretan auto put od Niša do Makedonske granice

Za prvo potpisujem 100%.
Za ono drugo sto si napisao bas se i ne slazem, imam ja dosta prijatelja po Srbiji ...


@ danilobg

Umno zboris, ali nije moguce da normalan covek ne stane u odbranu svoga nacionalnog identiteta.

Ух, Цане, прва аутокефална црква (осим оних првобитних четири патријаршија - Антиохијска, Цариградска, Јерусалимска и Александријска) је била Бугарска православна црква, основана у Охриду 927. године где јој је било и прво седиште.
У Охриду је било седиште Другог бугарског царства на Балкану, које је потукао византијски цар Василије II који је у историји остао упамћен по надимку
"бугароубица". У сваком случају цар Самуило је био бугарски цар, а не македонски и аутокефална патријаршија у Охриду је била бугарска, а не македонска.

И ово око неканонског укидања Охридске Архиепископије није тачно, тачно је да су Турци укинули све помесне (аутокефалне) православне цркве на својој територији осим Цариградске Патријаршије. Сви православци у Отоманској империји су били под јурисдикцијом Цариградског Патријарха, осим Срба који су имали своју аутокефалну Пећку Патријаршију. Али, после укидања Пећке Патријаршије и Срби су били под Цариградским патријархом.

Да скратим, Охридска Архиепископија никада није била аутокефална, увек је била под јурисдикцијом или Цариградског или Бугарског Патријарха, а од 1920. године је под Српским Патријархом.

Тачно је да историја Охридске цркве траје више од 11 векова, али није тачно да је та историја на било који начин повезана са "македонским" народом.

Првобитно словенско писмо (праћирилица) јесу саставили Ћирило и Методије да би лакше ширили хришћанство међу словенима на Балкану, али су је прво прихватили Бугари, јер су они географски живели најближе Солуну, а после Бугара ћирилица се у разним варијантама проширила по целом Балкану, чак су је користили и Хрвати све до 18. века (под називом глагољица).

Јооој, засмеја ме ширитељ мудрости и поштовалац аргументоване расправе...(ипак мора да се испуни дневна доза пљувања по своме и омаловажавања свега што има везе са Србима).

Цане, шта каже Зевс? 

Цане, твој недавни народ (а сада си Србин) настао је декретом (у пренесеном значењу, а иначе одлуком политичког врха земље, озакоњеном у уставу).

Боље Адамов потомак, него Шејтанов.

Иначе, радује ме кад се деца радују.

Такође, брате Цане, волео бих и да се видимо, попијемо пиће (нпр. 19. у Корчагину), па да разговарамо.

Узгред, шта ћемо са јерменским пореклом Самуиловим?

Pustite Makedonce da se bave time šta jesu i šta nisu.

Jadno je da mi držimo drugima lekcije, a toliko toga u našem dvorištu nismo rešili.

Za Srbiju i Makedoniju je mnogo bitnije da vide kako mogu da reše sporna pitanja. Najspornije je svakako što Srpska pravoslavna crkva i dalje smatra Makedoniju srpskom teritorijom sa sve Carom Dušanom negde kraj Skoplja kako organizuje lov na lavove. 

Izvor: Wikipedia


Znaci nisi mi odgovorio na pitanje >>> Koji je to narod sto paralelno ima dve crkve???





Izvor: Wikipedia


Pa ajde vec jednom se vi Srbi medju sebe dogovorite dali je bio srbin ili bugarin 





 
Tako je momak, svi sto ne "misle" kao ti pluvaju i omalovazuju


Ogledom na ovaj tvoj post ima mnogoooooo “pluvaca”