Da gledanje... je pocetak ... prvo pogleadas, pa onda mislis... Kada imas formiranu predstavu o nekoj stvari, onda to gleadane unaprijed ocekuje... moze se desiti demantovanje polaznog znanja, a mozda NE! U slucaju Hrvatske, ocigledno da to nije tako... 

Nela je super cura, sad će ona malo osut paljbu !!

Hrvatska vas sve ćeše ko žulj u cipeli , ahhahhahhah , ima li još koji članak igdje , amo u potragu Vlado ...... 

kill








[Edit by vlado85: Zabranjeno slati linkove koji se ne odnose na temu]

Mislim da je pravilnije reć "u slučaju Vlade85 očito to nije tako..."

Vlado je veseo ko ja kad bi došli gumeni bomboni iz Njemačke za vrijeme Tite .....   

sad će on gospodji da šine mail podrške ....... poštovana ja sam vlado iz malog mjesta Pale , znate ono odakle se tuklo Sarajevo 3 godine , te Vam ovom prilikom želim uputiti podršku i zahvaliti Vam se na članku koji ste napisali dana .........



..... ne mogu više umirem od smijeha ....... 

Zasto mene prozivate, kad znate da sam vam otrov na ranu? Citajte ba i uzivajte ... i kad pozelite jos ... samo recite 

---

Tragom pisanja "Baltimor san"-a o Hrvatskoj i njenoj vezi sa ratnom prošlošću
Novosti - 18 Jan 2007 18:00:00



Uskoro bi trebalo da počne suđenje za zločine u Medačkom džepu, a 7. maja kreće i proces protiv hrvatskog generala Ante Gotovine i drugih koji se terete za udruženi zločinački poduhvat

DOŠLO je vrijeme da Hrvatska izmiri stare dugove i konačno se suoči sa prošlošću, ocijenio je predsjednik Dokumentaciono-informacionog centra "Veritas" Savo Štrbac i dodao da će ova godina donijeti određene promjene kada je riječ o dosadašnjem viđenju ratnih događaja.

Najava toga mogao bi da bude i članak, objavljen prije nekoliko dana u američkom listu "Baltimor San", u kome je novinarka Džulija Gorin nizom primjera i činjenica ukazala na to da slika skorašnjih dešavanja na prostorima bivše Jugoslavije nije i nikako ne može da bude crno - bijela.

Najslikovitiji primjer bili su joj srpsko-hrvatski odnosi u Hrvatskoj, posebno veza između stradanja Srba u minulom i Drugom svjetskom ratu. Gorinova je ukazala na to da ni današnja Hrvatska, iako već pred vratima Evropske unije, nije raščistila sa svojom mračnom prošlošću.

Kao što se moglo i očekivati, članak objavljen u "Baltimor Sanu" izazvao je burne reakcije u Hrvatskoj, ali i među hrvatskom dijasporom, posebno američkim Hrvatima, koji uporno traže izvinjenje uredništva lista. Istini za volju, Hrvatska je ovako reagovala svaki put kada bi neko ukazao na činjenicu da su u Drugom svjetskom ratu, ma koliko to oni danas poricali, bili na strani nacista!

Svjedoci, na sreću, postoje i danas, a jedan od njih je i predsjednik republičkog Udruženja bivših logoraša iz Drugog svjetskog rata Gojko Knežević, koji je kazao da je došlo krajnje vrijeme da svijet otvori oči i da se napokon progovori o onom o čemu se decenijama ćutalo.

- Ne znam kako je Amerika zaboravila riječi svog predsjednika Frenklina Ruzvelta, koje je još 1943. godine, kada je dobio izvještaj o dešavanjima u logoru Jasenovac, kazao da Hrvatska treba da bude pod protektoratom - podsjetio je Knežević.

Prema njegovim riječima, Hrvatska mora da shvati da se od prošlosti ne može pobjeći, već da se s njom mora suočiti. Uporno negiranje istine, smatra Knežević, ne vodi pomirenju, već novim sukobima. A istina je da je NDH, podsjetio je, bila država hrvatskog naroda, zasnovana na rasnim zakonima, po kojima u njoj nije bilo mjesta za Srbe, Jevreje, Rome i druge manjine. Tadašnjom Hrvatskom vladali su Hrvati, a ne Nijemci ili Italijani, što se stalno pokušava podastrijeti kao argument za izbjegavanje obaveza prema preživjelim žrtvama i potomcima ubijenih!

Da je današnja Hrvatska nasljednica NDH, naglasio je Knežević, tvrdio je i prvi predsjednik Franjo Tuđman, koji je i najzaslužniji za vaskrsavanje ustaške ideologije početkom devedesetih godina prošlog vijeka. Upravo je Tuđman Hrvatskoj obećao i u djelo sproveo namjeru da jednom za sva vremena riješi "srpsko pitanje", tako što će broj Srba u Hrvatskoj svesti na manje od tri odsto, kada, po njemu, više neće moći da budu "remetilački faktor".

Da ustaške ideje nisu bile strane ni današnjem predsjedniku Stjepanu Mesiću, koji se uporno deklariše kao veliki antifašista, dokazao je i nedavno objavljeni snimak njegovog govora sa jednog od skupova u Australiji početkom devedesetih godina. Tada je otvoreno kazao da je u Drugom svjetskom ratu Hrvatska dva puta pobijedila i to prvi put 10. aprila 1941. godine, kada je priznata kao država, a drugi put 1945. godine.

Kako bilo, na neprestano hrvatsko koketiranje sa prošlošću već godinama ukazuje i Savo Štrbac, koji smatra da ovim neće biti zaustavljen put Hrvatske u evroatlantske integracije. Međutim, svim što se dešava u posljednje vrijeme, Hrvatskoj je jasno stavljeno do znanja da moraju procesuirati ratne zločine, obezbijediti povratak Srbima i vratiti im ono što je njihovo - rekao je predsjednika "Veritasa".

Uskoro bi trebalo da počne suđenje za zločine u Medačkom džepu, a 7. maja kreće i proces protiv hrvatskog generala Ante Gotovine i drugih koji se terete za udruženi zločinački poduhvat. Prošle godine se "desio" Branimir Glavaš...

- Međutim, koliko dugo je trajala istraga o događaju koji je najbolje obrađen od svih na ovom prostoru tokom rata, odnosno o Medačkom džepu? Zašto je CIA tek nedavno objelodanila izvještaj o Tomislavu Merčepu, koji je napisan još 1995. godine - zapitao je Savo Štrbac.

G. KLEPIĆ

D. MAJSTOROVIĆ


Frizirana istina

Savo Štrbac podsjetio je da su hrvatski predsjednik Franjo Tuđman i bošnjački ratni vođa Alija Izetbegović, iako su bili pod istragom za ratne zločine, što je tek kasnije objelodanjeno, "sahranjeni kao oci domovine, u prisustvu svjetskih zvaničnika". Zašto se to tako desilo, jasno je - sve je to odraz slike koju je neko tako zamislio i kreirao.

Štrbac je ponovio stav da je slika o dešavanjima u bivšoj Jugoslaviji predstavljena po holivudskoj šemi o dobrim i lošim momcima, ali da je istina negdje na sredini.

- Iako su ginuli ljudi na svim stranama u svijet je otišla slika o Srbima kao o lošim momcima. I dok su Srbi naivno mislili da će u svijet otići istina o tome šta se stvarno dešava, Hrvati, muslimani, a kasnije i Albanci, puno su ulagali u tu friziranu istinu - naveo je.


Kristijan Amanpur

Bolan šamar Hrvatska je 1999. godine dobila i od najmoćnije svjetske medijske kuće - američkog CNN-a. Njihova novinarka Kristijan Amanpur, izvještavajući sa suđenja nekadašnjem komandantu logora smrti Jasenovac Dinku Šakiću, ukazala je na činjenicu da savremena Hrvatska nije okrenula leđa ustaškoj ideologiji, potkrepljujući to nizom primjera, poput slika "poglavnika" Ante Pavelića u javnim ustanovama, ispisanih ustaških pozdrava "Za dom - spremni", slova "u", zatim ustaških pjesama, koje se puštaju na radio i TV stanicama, spomenika ustaškim zločincima...

www.glassrpske.com/cyrl/?page=1&kat=&vijest=15638

@ st faca  
@ nikola nisam ti ja nasilna, nema paljbe nikakve..
samo iznosim misljenje, nemam potrebu pljuvat po drugima nit objasnjavat nekima ono sto je zapravo zdravorazumski, a ocigledno bi im se trebalo objasnit..Sizifov posao
aj decki, nemojte se tako svadat, imate svi pozdrav od mene  

Za Nelicu  Kuss von mir !!

Reakcije Hrvata // OBJEDE J. GORIN Ne stišavaju se bu rne reakcije hrvatskog iseljeništva i diplomacije na pisanje Baltimore Suna

ANTIC.org-SNN
Thu, 18 Jan 2007 20:01:11 -0800

PROCITAJTE I KOMENTARE HRVATA U VECERNJEM LISTU.

Srbi bi trebalo da pisu Boltimore Sun i pohvale Juliin clanak!!

http://www.vecernji-list.hr/newsroom/news/croatia/721048/index.do
19.01.2007 00:29

OBJEDE J. GORIN Ne stišavaju se burne reakcije hrvatskog iseljeništva i
diplomacije na pisanje Baltimore Suna

Strah da Hrvati otkažu pretplatu Baltiomore Sunu
Autor Jadranka Jureško-Kero / NEW YORK


„Hrvatsko veleposlanstvo u Washingtonu poslalo je protestno pismo uredništvu
Baltimore Suna na neprimjereno pisanje Julije Gorin. Vjerujemo da ce se
sukladno zapadnjackim medijskim obicajima u sljedecih nekoliko dana objaviti
reakcije hrvatske diplomacije i americkih gradana hrvatskog podrijetla.“
To je za Vecernji list potvrdio Josip Babic, glasnogovornik Veleposlanstva
RH. Veleposlanik Neven Jurica tvrdi da redovito prate napise o Hrvatskoj u
americkim medijima i reagiraju kad je to potrebno. Iseljeništvo ne prestaje
nazivati Baltimore Sun. Njihovi novinari tvrde da ni jedan tekst u povijesti
lista nije potakao toliki broj reakcija i pisma citatelja. Rondra J.
Matthews, predsjednica Baltimore Suna nije bila raspoložena za razgovor s
novinarima Vecernjeg lista.

Nije bila spremna komentirati brojnost reakcija, nego je nepristojno
poklopila slušalicu. Uprava lista zabrinuta je zbog najava o otkazivanju
pretplate koju su od sunarodnjaka tražili predstavnici hrvatskog
iseljeništva. Nenad Bach, glazbenik i urednik hrvatskog CroWorld Net portala
razgovarao je s Franzom Schneidermanom, urednikom u Baltimore Sunu. - Rekao
je da su mnogi Hrvati bili suradnici nacistickog pokreta cemu sam se snažno
usprotivio.

Moj otac borio se protiv fašizma kao i vecina Hrvata“- rekao je Bach. Nitko
u listu, ali ni u prosrpskoj udruzi American Council for Kosovo, a jedan od
glavnih suradnika J. Gorin, nije želio otkriti ni njezin telefonski broj ni
adresu. „ Cuo sam da su Hrvati poludjeli, a Julija je sve popularnija medu
Srbima. Zar ste zaboravili što je u Sydneyju pocetkom devedesetih govorio
vaš predsjednik Mesic“- komentirao je djelatnik te organizacije.


========
Tekt Julije Gorin
When will world confront the undead of Croatia?

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bal-op.croatia16jan16,0,462113
8.story?coll=bal-oped-headlines

    Najzesce ... ma nije li ih to pogodilo stvarno ... ah istina boli, ali bas boli ...

Obrisat će nas gospodja ko gumicom bre čoveče 

Mozda... sa gospom se ne treba saliti... 

---

Lest We Believe Mainstream Nazism be Dead
Posted by Julia under Republican Riot

My editor at the Baltimore Sun tells me that the secretary, who has been there for ages, has never in all her years in the newspaper business, witnessed the storm that my article last week elicited. In case you missed it, the piece was titled “When Will World Confront the Undead of Croatia?” and it called attention to the fact that not only has Croatia not sufficiently acknowledged its zealous Nazi past of WW2, but the past followed it into the 1990s — and the criminals of that decade are widely celebrated by Croatians even today.

Apparently, this was the first piece of mainstream American journalism that didn’t place the blame for the 1990s Balkan wars squarely on Serb shoulders. For unlike the Serbs — who are accustomed to being vilified in the press on a daily basis for 15 years now — the hundreds of Croats, Croat defenders and Serbophobes I heard from were breathless in their fury and disbelief.

I will make an effort to post some of their letters, including letters in support of the article. But I will start by posting a letter, with my comments, that The Sun published on Saturday, written by Josip Babic, press attaché for Croatia’s embassy to the United States:

It is important to get the facts straight. Croatia has never justified, nor does it purport to justify, the crimes of the Nazi puppet regime that ruled parts of Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina during World War II.

It is a favorite Croatian ploy to refer to the Ustasha regime as a “puppet state” of Nazi Germany, when in fact it was a member of the Axis powers. As one comment on FreeRepublic.com asks, “[T]ell us how many ethnic Croats were imprisoned by the Germans during WWII. You ever hear of any? Can you name any? Do you have any photos of Germans hanging Croats like there are photos of Germans hanging and shooting Serb civilians, including women?” Croatians were only too happy to finally get an independent state (this is corroborated even by my detractors, whose letters I will be quoting) and fight as a member of the Axis powers.

More from Mr. Babic:

And if the author had observed more closely and been more judicious, she would have noted that Croatia has, over the past 15 years of its independence, undertaken numerous initiatives to confront and overcome the dark aspects of its past.

This has been done mainly through education programs in schools and universities but also in public information campaigns.

Official textbooks in Croatia have always espoused Croatia’s contributions to the anti-fascist alliance during World War II, including those by leading Croats such as former Yugoslav President Josip Broz Tito, while not shying away from addressing the less comfortable details of Croatia’s past or, more precisely, that of the non-legitimate, quisling regime installed by the Nazis during World War II.

In other words, “We teach the children about what the Germans made us do.”

In recognition of these long-standing efforts, Croatia was, in November 2005, invited to become a full member of the Task Force on International Cooperation on Holocaust Education, Remembrance and Research.

That says very little, considering that, in an even bigger perversion, when the National Holocaust Museum in Washington, D.C. opened an exhibit in 1994 titled “Faces of Sorrow — Agony in the Former Yugoslavia,” one invited guest was Croatia’s then president Franjo Tudjman, who as late as 1996 was trying to get Croatian Nazi soldiers reburied next to their victims; who sought to diminish the crimes committed at the Jasenovac camp; and who had written the none too Jewish-friendly book Wastelands: Historical Truth. A September, 1994 AP description of the exhibit: “Except for a handful of victims identified as Bosnian Serbs, nearly all exhibited pictures show wounded, emaciated or dead Moslems and Croats.” Back to the attache’s letter:

Moreover, in stark contrast to what the author suggested with regard to Croatia’s attitude on the former World War II internment camp at Jasenovac, Croatia’s president, prime minister and parliament speaker took part in the November 2006 opening of the permanent exhibition of the National Museum and Education Center at the Jasenovac Memorial Park to pay further tribute to its victims and foster education on the Holocaust.

On that occasion, Croatian Prime Minister Ivo Sanader stated that “not to forget the truth about our past and to draw a lesson from it is the only guarantor of our peace of mind and our peaceful future.”

Ah, thank you. Efraim Zuroff, the Simon Wiesenthal Center’s coordinator of Nazi war crimes research, called the museum “a big diappointment,” adding that “it lacks materials or explanations about the development of the Ustasha ideology before the war — hatred against Serbs and anti-Semitism, which helped the spread of genocidal policy.” From his recent op-ed in the JTA:

Despite the ostensible glitter of the high-power ceremony, and the modernistic design of the museum replete with the latest audio-visual gadgets, the new Croatian exhibition borders on total failure from a historical and an educational point of view. Completely absent, for example, is the general context. There is nothing on World War II or the Holocaust and, even worse, there is no explanation of Ustasha ideology. Thus the museum has no answer for the most obvious and pressing questions that every thinking visitor will ask: Why and how did the crimes committed in this terrible place happen? Without explaining the origins of the Ustasha’s genocidal policies, none of the artifacts and testimonies make much sense.

Also disturbing is the absence of any identification of the individuals responsible for the crimes described. Can you imagine a museum on the site of a camp nicknamed the “Auschwitz of the Balkans” without a single photograph of any of its commandants or even a list of major perpetrators? The issue of personal responsibility is ostensibly covered by repeated references to “the Ustasha,” but if not a single Ustasha personally connected to the crimes at Jasenovac is named and not a single photograph of any of the camp commanders is exhibited, then the image is created as if no individual Croatians are actually guilty.

In this regard, I was amazed that none of the speakers mentioned what is undoubtedly democratic Croatia’s greatest achievement in facing its Ustasha past — the prosecution and conviction of Jasenovac commander Dinko Šaki, whom it extradited from Argentina in 1998 and who is still serving his jail sentence in Lepoglava Prison. Could it be that the punishment of such a criminal whose fanatic Croatian patriotism led him to the Ustasha and his responsibility for the murder of several thousand inmates is so unpopular, even in today’s Croatia, that he was not mentioned in the politicians’ speeches, nor does he appear anywhere in the historical exhibition?

Across the river in Republika Srpska, none of these failures is surprising. The hostility toward the Croatians and the mistrust of their handling and interpretation of the historical events of World War II are legendary. They also partially explain the intensity of the ethnic hostility that fueled the Balkan wars of the ’90s, which only deepened the scars and traumas of World War II. In that respect, the murder in Jasenovac of approximately 10,000 Jews, according to the new Croatian museum, or of 33,000 Jews, according to the old Serbian memorial, was actually only a sideshow to the mass murder of Serbs by the Ustasha.

This glitzy farce was put together in cooperation with the National Holocaust Museum in D.C. Please note also that the attache has just called the notorious Jasenovac death camp — by all historical accounts the worst and most sadistic camp of the Holocaust — an “internment camp.” Go back and look. He really did.

Back to the letter:

It should also be noted that Croatia is the only country in the region that has cooperated, and continues to fully cooperate, with the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) in The Hague.

Croatia has extradited or mediated in the extradition of 35 Croatian citizens or ethnic Croatians from Bosnia and Herzegovina to the ICTY, and has fulfilled all other requests (720 in all) put to it by the tribunal.

Croatia’s judiciary has also processed numerous war crimes cases on its own, including several high-level cases involving senior military commanders and a parliamentary deputy, as well as cases transferred to Croatia by the ICTY.

Croatian citizens, regardless of ethnicity, are being held accountable for war crimes and other violations of the rules of war, much as those in any other democratic country subjected to a protracted conflict on its territory would be.

Thanks again. Note this 2004 admonition from Human Rights Watch:

To the authorities in Croatia:

War crimes prosecutions need to be brought without regard to ethnicity.

Croatia should enhance efforts to investigate and prosecute incidents in which ethnic Croats were responsible for crimes against ethnic Serbs.

Charging standards and sentencing practice should be the same for all defendants, regardless of their ethnic origin. Croatian prosecutors should cease the practice of indicting Serbs for war crimes on the basis of minor offences, where Croats alleged to have committed the same acts are not charged.

Croatia should not discriminate on the basis of ethnicity in hiring judges. Returnee Serbian judges should not be discriminated against and should have an opportunity for employment in Croatian courts.

In cases of group indictments, prosecutors for the special war crimes chambers should specify the role of each individual in the commission of the crime and not merely ground the charges on, e.g., membership in a specific military unit to which alleged perpetrators belonged.

Then there was this 2006 Amnesty report of prosecutions in the Balkans. Zagreb, we have a problem:

CROATIA: Domestic prosecutions

Trials for war crimes and crimes against humanity continued or started before local courts, often in absentia. In some cases these trials did not meet internationally recognized standards of fairness. In general, ethnic bias continued to affect the investigation and prosecution by the Croatian judiciary of wartime human rights violations. There continued to be widespread impunity for crimes allegedly committed by members of the Croatian Army and police forces.

Details are here. And just for fun, see the Amnesty reports for 2003, 2004 and 2005.

End of Mr. Babic’s letter:

Croatia and its government recognize that it is in our best interest, and the region’s best interest, that all countries of Southeast Europe work toward the common goal of membership in the European Union and NATO, and in so doing, create a better and brighter future for all our citizens based on our shared values and commitments. Croatia is dedicated to building this common future.

It is wrong and misleading to focus on three or four individual acts and use them to incriminate a country and its entire population, as Ms. Gorin did.

Good God. Did he really say “three or four individual acts”? A fitting press attache for Croatia indeed!


http://www.juliagorin.com/wordpress/?p=560