Moguća lokacija za sklapanje F-35 ne samo za Tursku već i za Evropu je upravo sama Turska. S obzirom da rade mnogo dobar posao sa F-16-icama ne bi me ni malo začudilo da oni kao najtvrdokorniji(pored nadmenih Britanaca) saveznik Amerikanaca uzmu ulogu "distributera JSF za područje Evrope". Jer se zapadnoevropske zemlje nećkaju i polako traže izlaz iz ovog kola. Turci ga svakako najviše žele, samo da bi zaboli prst u oko Grcima, i ne samo to. Mada su i sada već u prednosti u odnosu na Grke, jer situacija je takva, kao što znaš, da im Turci svakodnevno "posjećuju" vazdušni prostor primoravajući Grčke F-16 na presrijetanje. A kako se sa svakim satom provedenim u vazduhu smanjuje radni vijek vazduhoplova, logično je zaključiti da će ovi avioni morati u prijevremenu penziju. I tako će Grci jednog dana istrošiti resurse na svojim F-16 i ispratiti ih polako u muzeje ili negdje drugo. Dok će Turci nastaviti da lete na istim tim mašinama(jednostavno-Turci imaju fabrike za proizvodnju skoro svih neophodnih djelova i zavod za produžavanje vijeka F-16). Da bi Grci opstali u takvoj trci(konkretno F-16) moraju dobro da se priklone Amerikancima kako znaju i umiju ili da mijenjaju komplet flotu F-16. Ali kao što je već svima poznato oni su izabrali ovu prvu verziju i na kraju kupili još F-16C/D.

Yup znaju turci drzavu da vode nema sta  ........pg/niks  :flower:pozdrav

Pa, trebalo bi Kurdi da im miniraju te fabrike, cisto reda radi.

a jest hoce kurdi.....nemaju vremena sele se u nagorno karabah.......

Breaking News

F-22 Raptor's unlucky rival YF 23 Black Widow II is offered to TuAF instead of 116 F-35's.

There is no official disclosure from both sides but experts said that Boeing lobby on USA will urge the senate to release the YF 23 export to Turkey with limited technology transfer.



In the late 1970’s, concern arose among military planners about the aging design (first flight in 1972) of the F-15 and the possible loss of future air superiority of the fighter. Soviet fighters such as the MiG 29 and Su-27 had demonstrated remarkable maneuverability and performance.

In 1981, the Air Force developed a requirement for an Advanced Tactical Fighter as a new air superiority fighter.

On 31 October 1986, the Air Force awarded each team a $691-million fixed-price contract to build two prototypes: Northrop-McDonnell Douglas' YF-23, and the Lockheed-Boeing-General Dynamics YF-22. In contrast to the F-117A and the B-2, both of which had been point designed for stealth, these two prototypes were the first airplanes ever to blend stealth with agility and high-speed, supersonic cruise capability.



Two YF-23 prototypes were designed and built by the contractor team of Northrop and McDonnell Douglas as part of the demonstration and evaluation phase of the US Air Force's Advanced Tactical Fighter selection program, which concluded in 1990. During the ATF program, one YF-23 was powered by twin Pratt and Whitney YF119 turbofan engines, while two General Electric YF120 turbofan engines were installed in the other prototype. Featuring a diamond-shaped planform, two large, sharply-canted ruddervators, and a serrated aft profile, the high performance aircraft was larger than the F-15 it was designed to replace. The YF-23 prototypes are 67.4 feet in length and have wingspans of 43.6 ft. The YF-23 employed stealth characteristics and was capable of supersonic cruise flight without afterburner. The aircraft achieved a speed of Mach 1.8 during the program.

In April 1991, the Air Force selected Lockheed's YF-22 design for full-scale development, now termed "Engineering & Manufacturing Development" (EMD). According to the Air Force, factors in the selection for production of the F-22 were a better designed for maintainability, greater potential for future development, and slightly lower cost. Secretary of the Air Force Donald B. Rice stated that the choice was based on confidence in the ability of the Lockheed team and Pratt & Whitney to produce the aircraft and its engine at projected costs. Emphasizing the importance of the Lockheed team's management and production plans, he denied that either prototype was significantly more maneuverable or stealthy. A popular view is that the decision reflected a preference for maneuverability over stealth



Differences between F-22 Raptor - F-23 Black Widow II

1-The YF-22 and YF-23 were different in many ways. The YF-23 was designed for speed and maneuverability. The YF-22, however, was designed more for maneuverability. Both aircraft, were designed for a type of flight called supercruise. Supercruise is when an aircraft is designed to be flown at Mach 1 or above in cruise, that is without afterburners. For this reason, both aircraft had to be more aerodynamic.

2-The exhausts of the two aircraft differed radically. Lockheed chose a layout aimed at maximising lower speed manoeuvrability via the use of thrust vectoring, even though this was not a mandatory USAF requirement. Two dimensional thrust vectoring nozzles provide vectoring to enhance response in pitch. Northrop on the other hand rated stealth and drag so important they employed a serrated planform beavertail with B-2-like submerged ventral exhaust troughs. This approach reduced both depressed tail aspect infrared emissions and tail aspect radar cross-section, but precludes any vectoring.

3- It is universally held that the YF-23 was by far the better looking aircraft, and supporters offer a number of other reasons why the YF-23 should have won the ATF competition.

4- The YF-23 was a very agile aircraft. The YF-23 is a very unstable aircraft; however, when this instability is coupled with a fly-by-wire control system, this results in a very agile aircraft. Another attribute that lends itself to high mobility is the uniqueness of the tail. On the YF-23, instead of using two rudders and two elevators, it uses a ruddervator, a combined rudder/elevator. This ruddervator is angled at a roughly 45° angle to horizontal.

5- The YF-23 was stealthier than the F-22 Raptor. The two ruddervators reduce the Radar Cross Signature of the YF-23 significantly. This is beacuse instead of having four extremly large control surfaces on the tail, there are only two. The F-22 Raptor design utilizes the traditional configuration of two rudders, which are canted outward, and two elevators. This make the RCS larger.

6- The YF-23 had a greater fuel capacity and therefor a longer range. By having a larger wing area and greater fuselage volume, the fuel storage of the YF-23 is increased over the F-22 Raptor. As a result of this, the YF-23 can fly longer CAP (Combat Air Patrol) missions. It can also fly deeper into enemy territory without the need to be refueled by tankers. As a result of the first one, fewer aircraft must be purchased. As a result of the second, less money needs to be spent on refueling tankers.
 

piuuuu....ali opet dobijaju top avione......

Ma da, Kurdi su druga tema. YF-23 izgleda u p.m. dobro, ali i malo mracno, ali ok - ratna sprava. Ce se pokaze kakav je (ovo jos nije ucestvovalo ni u kakvim akcijama, ili jeste?).

Zvuči nevjerovatno dobro po Turke ali čisto sumnjam. Prije bi rekao prljava politička igra Amerikanaca nego bilo šta drugo.
Prvo, ako će im prodati stelt avion prodaće im F-35, jer će ga već imati nekoliko država.
Drugo, transfer tehnologije. Ako hoćeš da imaš i održavaš u punoj borbenoj gotovosti ovakve avione moraš imate potpuni uvid u sve njegove mogućnosti i pojedinosti.
Treće, ako već neće da prodaju F-22 Japanu i Izraelu, čisto sumnjam da bi to sada uradili sa YF-23 bilo kome, a ne samo Turskoj.
Pozdrav Nathan X

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@pg/niks.........šta ti to znači na kraju mog posta.....nevjerujem tek ču verovati u takvo nešto kad vidim prvo isporuku........

ljudi da ne gresim dusu ali  ovaj bolje izgleda od raptora ............mene vise vuce da ga nece prodati ..........mada se nista ne zna.......moraju se ulizivati turcima