Algeria to return 15 MiG aircraft to Russia over inferior quality

18/02/2008 13:38 MOSCOW, February 18 (RIA Novosti) - In an unprecedented move, Algeria is to return to Russia 15 MiG aircraft delivered in 2006-07, a Russian business daily said on Monday.

Kommersant quoted a source in the state-owned United Aircraft Building Corporation as saying that last week the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation, Russia's state-run arms exporter Rosoboronexport, the MiG Corporation, and the Algerian Air Force had signed an agreement on the return of the MiGs.

It said the Russian Industry and Energy Ministry had confirmed the deal.

The aircraft are to be returned within the next few months. However, the source said this did not mean that the previous contract has now been torn up, and Russia will offer Algeria more advanced airplanes, MiG-29M2s or MiG-35s.

Rosoboronexport signed a $1.28 billion contract for the delivery of 29 one-seat MiG-29SMT Fulcrum fighters and six two-seat MiG-29UB fighters in March 2006 as part of an $8 billion military-technical cooperation agreement with Algeria.

Deliveries were to be made from March 2007 until February 2008, but Algeria began refusing deliveries from May 2007, demanding that Russia take back the first 15 aircraft it had delivered, citing the "inferior quality" of certain components and units.

In October 2007, Algeria stopped payments on other military contracts pending the return of the MiGs.

Experts suggest Algeria may have opted instead for French Rafale fighters as France builds up its presence in the North African state.

"The Russian [cooperation agreement] breakthrough in Algeria in 2006 provoked a strong backlash in France, especially following the election of President Sarkozy," said Konstantin Makiyenko, of the Center for Strategic and Technological Analysis.


Ovo je jako los marketing za ruse i trebalo bi da rese ovo sto pre jer moze da im ugrozi druge potencijalne poslove.

sta je ovo ovih dana sa njima?!

pa nece valjda punokrvnu verziju MiGica da daju alzircima...

Izgleda da su pokusali da im podvale nesto, pa sad obecavaju MiG-35, M2 itd. da bi se izvadili, nadam se da ce to izgladiti jer je to jako lose po imidz MiG-a, samo im fali da steknu reputaciju firme koja fuserise 

Ko zna sta se desava u senci.

Pa u senci se desava da dugogodisnji prijatelj Rusa Abdul Al Mariz vise nije vrhovni komandant,i da se na njegovo mesto navukao Francuzoljubac Rishad Harman koji posto poto zeli Francuske avione.Jel im trebalo 2 godine da shvate nedostatke?Pa to je glupo....i strasno ruzno od Alziraca.......

Slazem se sa Herrosom, verovatno je politika u pitanju. Glupi su alzirci; jel im nije bilo dosta francuske cizme.
Ma, svako je krojac svoje sudbine.

Pa oni su se odmah bunili nakon prvih isporuka, jos u maju 2007. A secam se i da je sredinom godine bilo informacija da su isporuke zaustavljene zbog toga sto su otkrili da im rusi ne isporucuju nove, vec modernizovane stare avione. navodno, to su bili konzervirani avioni koji su bili u rezervi, ali alzirci nisu prihvatili to objasnjenje. Inace, u istom "dilu" alzirci su narucili i tenkove, Su-30MKA(na njih nisu imali primedbe, prvih 6 je isporuceno krajem decembra), neke artiljerijsko raketne sisteme itd. Sve u svemu veliki posao vredan skoro 8 milijardi dolara, tako da je u interesu Rusije da se ovo resi na obostrano zadovoljstvo. Uglavnom, ovo pitanje je aktuelno izmedju ostalog i zato sto je danas stigao alzirski predsednik u rusiju, verovatno da resi, itmedju ostalih, i ovo pitanje. Rusi ce sada da zaslade dogovor ponudom modernijih varijanti MiG-29, dok alzirci prete prvo da ce otici kod kineza da kupe FC-1, a sada se cuje mogucnost da kupe Rafale. Naravno, ja ne ocekujem da se to i desi, to je obicno blefiranje kako bi se poslovni partner privoleo na saradnju.
Evo jos jedan clanak na ovu temu:
http://www.stratfor.com/analysis/algeria_russia_handful_migs

заболе русе рацку за то што алжирци мисле...море нек дају нама те мигове...нећемо да се бунимо...и МиЛ28...

Ako hoces da budes dobar izvoznik sopstvenog naoruzanja ne sme da te boli uvo.I to posebno kad su takve sume u pitanju.

U pravu je Herros, ovakav razvoj je jako negativan marketing za MiG, a obzirom da se sprema konkurs za izbor novog srednjeg lovca za Indiju, i jos neki veliki poslovi, MiG mora da povede racuna o svojoj reputaciji kako bi imao sanse da uzme te poslove. Ipak su u pitanju silne milijarde, sto od direktne prodaje, sto od odrzavanja i remonta prodatih aviona.
Bilo kako bilo, dogovorili su se o vracanju 15 aviona i Alzir ce verovatno dobiti nove, mozda cak i modernije varijante, sto bi pomoglo da se vrati poljuljani ugled MiG-a. Bitno je da se rusi nisu nasli uvredjeni vec se ponasaju kao pravi prodavac koji zeli da musterija bude srecna, cak i ako je mozda cela prica o losem kvalitetu nekih komponenti iskonstruisana od strane francuza.
Evo jos jedan detaljan clanak o tome:
http://www.kommersant.com/p854040/r_528/military_hardware_foreign_relations/
 

MOSCOW. (Nikita Petrov exclusively for RIA Novosti) - Algeria will return 15 MiG-29SMT (Fulcrum) fighters purchased from the MiG corporation in 2006-2007 to Russia. The deal on the return was signed shortly before Algerian President Abdelaziz Bouteflika visited Moscow.

The ensuing scandal was picked up by the press.

This is an unpleasant incident not only because Algeria has thereby expressed its dissatisfaction over the quality of Russian exports. This brings into doubt the entire military-technical cooperation between the two countries with a price tag of $7 billion. This is the sum of the contracts signed by Russian representatives during Vladimir Putin's visit to Algeria.

This is the first demonstrative return during Russia's entire military-technical cooperation with foreign countries. What is the reason behind it?

Although military-technical cooperation is a sensitive subject, and not everything is known for sure, experts see many reasons behind this decision. One of them is the struggle between different political groups and clans in Algeria. Arms supplies always involve middlemen who receive impressive shares for their services. Those who get nothing are naturally displeased about this. Intrigues are always part of these deals, but when those who sign the contracts possess real power, scandals never acquire global dimensions.

Competition is another reason. Paris was going to sell its own Rafale fighters to Algeria, but the Algerians opted for the MiGs. The terms of the contract were very good. First, the price of the Russian fighters was much lower and the characteristics were very much the same. Second, by buying the fighters Algeria was paying off its debt to the former Soviet Union and its successor Russia. Moreover, as part of the payment, Russia offered to take back 36 old MiGs that had been bought by Algeria from Ukraine and Belarus, and flown by the Algerian Air Force. Who would refuse such incentives?

It is hard to believe that the MiG-29SMTs (one-seat and two-seat combat and training versions) were of poor quality. Off the record, Russian arms exporters maintain that before being sent to the south Mediterranean coast, the fighters were approved by Algerian experts. They also checked them up upon arrival in the country, and even started flying them. How can they now complain of defects, used spare parts or rusted units? Why didn't they see them before? But the time for rhetorical questions has gone. Russia has signed the deal on the return of 15 fighters and is obliged to take them back.

However, the Algerian experts are right when they talk about a drop in quality of Russian arms exports. This is openly admitted by top-ranking officials in charge of the Russian military-industrial sector, such as First Deputy Prime Minister and head of the military and industrial commission Sergei Ivanov and his first deputy Vladislav Putilin.

At a recent Academy of Military Sciences conference, Putilin said that "although the enterprises of the military-industrial sector have increased their turnout by more than 14% (military production went up by 19.1%, and civilian by 7.6%), some of them are simply unable to fulfill state-awarded contracts. Moreover, they cannot even use the allocated funds. The federal budget has long been generous. Thus, 800 billion rubles ($28 billion) were earmarked for defense purposes for 2008, 900 billion rubles ($33 billion) for 2009, and 1.1 trillion rubles (40 billion) for 2010."

The reasons for this situation are well known. Highly qualified personnel have come close to retirement age. Machines and technologies are becoming obsolescent - capital equipment in the defense industry is more than 30 years old. Major technologies have been lost, usual contacts severed, and the required raw materials and equipment are in short supply. The price of energy has skyrocketed. It is leaving the inflation rate far behind and greatly exceeds the deflators fixed by the Ministry of Economic Development and Trade.

It is already clear that the 2006-2015 state defense order endorsed just two years ago will not be fulfilled either in the range or number of products. This is the third order that the defense industry will not be able cope with.

Graduates of technical colleges are reluctant to work in the defense industry. Salaries are rather low, and career opportunities cannot compete with those in the oil and gas industry. In order to become a leading expert, a graduate has to work in the defense sector for at least 10 years. This is a slow process.

And there is another reason. Before, young people were not drafted if they worked at a military plant called a mailbox. Now this benefit does not exist. After graduating from a technical vocational school or college, young people take any job rather than going to a place where getting a foreign passport may become a hassle.

One more problem is that technical vocational schools no longer exist. Nobody is training future workers. Good turners, assembly fitters and welders are worth their weight in gold. Without them, it is impossible to build high-quality aircraft, ships, or missiles.

Putilin said that the "reasons for this situation in the defense industry are known. Talk about these problems in different formats and by all branches of power has become a ritual, but it is not always possible to coordinate the efforts by federal executive bodies, organizations, and enterprises aimed at removing these obstacles."

Apparently, the MiG fighters to be returned by Algeria are a major example of these problems that are discussed at length but not resolved. This scandal may not only affect bilateral relations between Russia and Algeria. It has also dealt a heavy blow to Russia's image as arms exporter. This is fraught with big problems for the future. Mistakes on the world's arms market spell enormous losses.

The opinions expressed in this article are the author's and do not necessarily represent those of RIA Novosti.

Дедушке одоше у пензију и сада комотно могу да затворе пола војне индустрије. Небрига о кадровима у последњих 20 година ће се тек осетити. Војна индустрија се ствара и негује годинама. Ускоро неће моћи да производе ни оно што су могли пре 20 година, макар не у тим количинама. Алжирци су погрешили. Боље да су узели то модернизовано из совјетских залиха јер ускоро неће бити ничега за продају јер Руси као и ми углавном продају своје модернизоване старе залихе. За неких 10 година неће бити више ничега за извоз јер ће Руси све своје капацитете користити искључиво за домаћу употребу. Треба обновити велику Армију. Ваља испоручити 4000 нових борбених авиона. Неће бити ни кап за извоз.