Pravi razliku izmedju ceremonije, obreda, tradicije i zavisnoti! !!

Pre svega, droge ne stvaraju zavisnost same od sebe! Vrlo, vrlo su male sanse da ce neko ko je imao "dobro" detinjstvo postati zavisnik. Po istrazivanju, najbolji uslovi za razvoj coveka i deteta je drustvo lovaca sakupljaca (ne, ne mislim da je to ono sto nam treba u 21. veku, ali mozemo da neke stvari promenimo!). Sa druge strane, postindustrijski kapitalizam (ovo cudo danas) je devastirajuce okruzenje za razvoj coveka!

Dakle, "moderan covek" nema mehanizme protiv razvoja zavisnosti, jer zivimo u kulturi koja je visoko podlozna razvoju zavisnosti!

    Drugo, zavisnost na droge (heroin, na primer), nije ista stvar kao i zavisnost prema kupovini ili hrani! Zajednicko za sve zavisnike, bez obzira o kojoj vrsti zavinosti se radi je to da su bili izlozeni nekoj vrsti traume u detinjstvu. Pravilo koje vazi, po dr Mateu je da sto je osoba bila izlozenija vecoj traumi u detinjstvu, to je veca verovatnoca da ce se "nakaciti" na teze droge! Medjutim, ne mora da znaci da ce svako ko je bio zlostavljan u detinjstvu postati zavisnik, ali je svaki zavisnik (100% slucajeva) bio zrtva zlostavljanja u detinsjtvu! Slicno tome, zavisnost nije jedini propratni efekat trauma iz detinjstva....druga prica.

“In medicine it is a mistake to try and ascribe things to just one cause. But if there is one major cause, a dominant cause, then the major cause of severe substance addiction is always childhood trauma.”

Mogu da opisem proces nastajanja zavisnosti ako ima potrebe.

Greska. Ajahuaska se uzima pre svega kako bi se kroz efekte koje stvara, u osobi "otkacio (pokrenuo)" kritican momenat u zivotu, koji je doveo do zavisnosti. Slicno je sa hipnozom! Dakle, ne uzima se tek tako....ajde da se odvalimo!


And tobacco and other potentially addictive substances were available prior to the European settlement of this continent — even alcohol, in what is now Mexico and the American Southwest. Yet there is no mention by anthropologists or historians of anything that could be reasonably called addiction. As Bruce Alexander, professor emeritus of psychology at Simon Fraser University, points out, "where alcohol was readily available, it was used moderately, often ceremonially rather than addictively."


Most indigenous societies had drugs and alcohol before colonisation, but with little or no addiction and abuse. So why do we have such high levels of drug abuse now? ........ Before colonisation, drugs and alcohol were part of the cultural practices of indigenous communities worldwide. Most aboriginal cultures had strict values and structures around alcohol and drug use. Tobacco and alcohol were mostly for elders while restrictions were placed on youth. Drug abuse simply did not exist because strong social cohesion gave people the security they needed to be strong within themselves.

But these social structures were destroyed by the economic policies of colonialism, focusing on individual power and freedom rather than communal support. Colonialism therefore destroyed traditional family solidarity and, lonely and lost, aboriginal peoples turned to drug and alcohol abuse to soothe the pain, in the manner of their barbaric conquerors.


Gde se umesa lova, treba ocekivati interes, a ne ozbiljnost! Ima izuzetaka. Odprilike znamo kako radi svetska Zdravstvena Organizacija.
Primer: Glupa i jalova prica oko tzv "borbe protiv droga".

Eh....kad bi poceli sta je danas sve nelogicno....................

The Jungle Prescription

- Full Version of CBC The Nature of things with David Suzuki / Episode on Ayahuasca: The Jungle Prescription

-The Jungle Prescription is the tale of two doctors treating their addicted patients with a mysterious Amazonian medicine rumored to reveal one's deepest self. Dr. Gabor Maté has a revolutionary idea: to treat addicts with compassion. His work as the resident
doctor in Vancouver's Portland Hotel - a last-chance destination for lifelong drug abusers - has been courageous, but incredibly frustrating. Maté hears of an ancient medicine beyond his imaginings: one that could provide his patients with a solution. Its name is ayahuasca: the vine of the souls. Deep in the Amazon jungle, French doctor Jacques Mabit is using this medicine to treat hardcore addicts. Mabit runs a detox centre in the Amazon (Takiwasi or "The House That Sings"), using the plants and methods of traditional medicine. Ayahuasca is a visionary formula that unlocks emotional memory; causing life-changing catharsis in those who drink it. The reported success rates for curing addicts at Dr. Mabit's detox centre are quadruple the average.
Dr Mate returns to Canada with a plan to work with a group of healers to treat patients struggling with various types of addiction. At these sessions they will serve ayahuasca: the acrid tea that occupies a grey area of Canadian law. But without a detox centre or support structure for his patients, will it work?

Since the publication of his award-winning book, In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts, Dr. Gabor Mate has been one of Canada's leading thinkers on addiction and its deeper causes. The experience of making the film has had a profound impact on him: "As a physician all too aware of the limitations and narrowness of Western medicine, I have learned much from working with this plant. The Jungle Prescription took me far physically, but even further in the spiritual realm where our deepest humanity resides. The plant, and the experience with the plant, is no panacea. There are no panaceas. But as an opening to human possibility, even in the face of lifelong trauma and desperation, it offers much. Seeing people open to themselves, even temporarily, has been a teaching and an inspiration."

preuzeto sa: http://www.thefix.com

The Rebel Doctor

Meet Gabor Maté, a doctor who works with North America’s only supervised injection site and believes that addicts are some of the happiest people he knows.

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In the field of addiction, Hungarian-born Gabor Maté is known for his controversial and revolutionary theories on the sources of addiction and how addicts should be treated. And he knows of what he speaks: in the early 2000s, Maté joined the Portland Hotel Society (PHS), a clinic for Vancouver’s homeless and drug addicted, and he followed that by working with Insite—the only supervised injection site in North America. In his so-called spare time, the Canadian doctor has written best-selling books on parenting, stress, and ADD. 2011 saw the release of In The Realm of Hungry Ghosts, his much-acclaimed treatise on the way addiction begins in childhood.

How did you get into addiction therapy?

I worked in family practice for over 20 years and in palliative care for seven, which is when I became interested in childhood mental health issues and finally I went into addiction work. It’s impossible to be in family practice and not run across some addiction. Early on in my career I had worked in downtown Vancouver [notorious for its drug use and homelessness] and I knew I would go back.

At the very heart of addiction is the deep absence of self-esteem, which is caused by stress to the traumatized child.
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What have you learned about addiction from those experiences?

First of all, I’ve come to learn that nature has very little to do with addiction. There are certain genes that may predispose to certain addictions but if the person is treated well, those genes have no impact on their behavior. Addiction runs in families because the same conditions are recreated from one generation to the next. So you need to look at people’s lives, not their hereditary. If you look at why addicts are soothing themselves through chemicals, you have to look at why they have discomfort and you will see that they have all experienced childhood adversity—the pain and distress that they needed to escape.

And from that end, what do you see as the role of stress and trauma in addiction?

Once you’re traumatized as a child, you will continue to be traumatized as an adult [until you get help] because you will not have the emotional balance necessary to heal the trauma. Women who were abused as children will seek out abusive partners. And society plays its part in that, too. Even though we live in a highly addicted society, it is only the substance addicts that are criminalized and ostracized. People who are addicted to, say, cigarettes—or even power—are considered okay. But if someone is addicted to heroin, that person will be further stressed by the criminal system and the medical system, neither of which have much understanding or compassion for addiction.

Why is the War on Drugs a failure and how can we really solve the drug epidemic?

The War on Drugs is an utter failure only if we accept that its fundamental intention is the elimination of addiction and of drug trafficking. But from another perspective, it may not be a failure at all. Is the war in Iraq a failure? Not for the companies that make billions of dollars of profit on it, not for the military who make billions of dollars, or the contractors or politicians. The War on Drugs has been a failure from the position of its stated aims. But is it a failure? Not from the point of view of the police apparatus, not from the perspective of the big drug dealers who are in cahoots with government agencies around the world, nor from those who profit from the increasingly privatized jail system, nor those who supply jails, and so on.

You seem to have a very humanistic view on addiction. Why do you think that is?

First you have to understand that the source of addiction is in the human himself. Then you think: how do you help someone who is pain? First by acknowledging their suffering and validating their attempt to escape from their pain, then by helping them not suffer so that they don’t have to rely on the drugs. It takes a whole different perspective. Resources that are used to incarcerate people would have to be used to help people to rewire their brains in healthy ways—through access to food, safe housing, good counseling, and employment skills: those things addicts that don’t have and have no way of getting under the current system. At the very heart of addiction is the deep absence of self-esteem, which is caused by stress to the traumatized child. Addicts believe that if all these negative things happen to them, there must be something wrong with them. When they are punished and attacked and criticized further, it hardens that deep sense of self-loathing.

How, then, do addicts get themselves out of that cycle? Is there room for free will in recovery from addiction?

Is there free will? When you think about it, there is no absolute free will because let’s say that you and Donald Trump both have the freedom to fly a private jet. You have the freedom but he has the ability. The same thing is true psychologically. Donald Trump might be free to have a spiritually validated life but he might not be able. He needs the accouterments, and riches and power, and that has to do with psychic factors that he has no control of. Free will implies consciousness. For addicts, their behaviors are very unconscious. The safer people feel and the more accepted they feel, the more they feel connected to others. The more defensive they are, the more reactive they are. You can give them the conditions where they can develop free will. Very few people have absolute free will because very few people have absolute consciousness—the addicts least of all, and that includes the power addict.

Kristalni, šteta što ne može tek tako da se skapira prava vrednos ayahuasce kroz kuckanje slova na forumu.
Mogu da razjasnim prepirku oko zavisnosti šamana:
Šamani veoma često koriste to piće zbog tog treninga. Uče ih stariji Šamani i kasnije provode godinu, dve u samoći u džungli. Kako kaže da je uzimaju i do hiljadu puta odnosi se na njihov trening a ne na zavisnost.
Šaman mora poptuno da shvati to iskustvo tokom uzimanja da bi kasnije mogao svoje znanje da primeni u svom selu.
Znam da ayahuascu daju i mladim osobama tipa 12 godina...  Moguće da je uzimaju i trudne žene.

Bas lepo sto si se javio! Da li mozes nesto vise da kazes o ovome i da li imas lcna iskustva?

Kod ajahuaske je najbitnija ceremonija, odnosno grupni predobred, odnosno priprema za samu konzumaciju.

Dolaskom kapitalizma na tlo obe Amerike, opijati su izgubili kontekst, njihovo dejstvo je izgubilo smisao, zloupotrebljeno je, zanemarivani su nacini upotrebe opijata i utrli put zavinsosti koje do tada nije bilo, izgubio se obred i ceremonija upotrebe opijata. Rezultat je bio totalno pogresan, opijati su izgubili svoj smisao.

U pravu si, bitna je ceremonija. Ali i kod drugih droga je ona bitna. Npr. lsd, veoma je bitno sa kakvim stanjem uma se uzima i on moze da bude samo za zezanje kao sto je to slucaj u zapadnjackoj kulturi. Ali moze se koristiti i za prave stvari. Potpuno se slazem sa tobom o gledanju na opijate u zapadnjackoj kulturi. Posto svaka droga podstice otvaranje uma prema sagledanju stvarnosti, tada, za vreme njihovog dejstva se primenjuju razne metode (npr. shamanisticki rituali) da bi se izlecio duh i telo coveka.
Sa ajavaskom nemam nikakvog iskustva, mada sam ziveo u Boliviji. Kada sam dosao tamo odmah sam upoznao troje zanimljivih ljudi koji su imali svoj mali kult pecuraka te sam ih jedno vreme uzimao sa njima. Naravno ja sam na to gledao skroz drugacije, a oni npr. idu u berbu samo kada je posle kisnog dana lep suncan dan. Inace one u Santa Kruzu rastu kao kad bi u Beogradu otisli do Borce na neku livadu i kako kazu idemo da lovimo
Takodje sam video kako se priprema pejota ali mi rekose da nisam spreman za to iskustvo.

Odgledao sam par zanimljivih dokumentaraca o ayahuasci i ima ih na YT full:
Shamanism - Other Worlds - u ovom filmu jedan francuz prepricava svoje iskustvo sa ajavaskom i ritualima u kojima je uestvovao.
Documentary Shamans Of The Amazon 2002 - u ovom jedan australijanac, cini mi se, ide u posetu shamanima sa  svojom trudnom zenom
i Manifesting the Mind: Footprints of the Shaman najduzi film, traje 2 sata i bavi se i drugim "spiritualnim" biljkama koje se upotrebljavaju u lecenju

Samo kucaj imena u YT i izaci ce

Na Rubu Znanosti - Amazonski samanizam i ayahuasca




Graham Hancock and the Sacred Vine | London Real




Ayahuasca - My Heart of Darkness | London Real


Iskustvo jednog od domacina emisije LondonReal (Nik Gebriel, osoba levo na videu) sa Ajahuaskom i nacinu na koji mu je ova biljka (ceremonija) promenila pogled na svet, kako kaze "Old Nic died in that jungle".

Ako je problem sto aktiviram ovu temu, neka nadlezni reaguju!


DMT - Dimethyltryptamine - Before & After - FULL EPISODE | London Real

Znam za ovo...

Idu ljudi koji imaju i psihicke probleme...Traume iz detinjstva i tako to..

Gledao neki film o tome...Ono ljudi skrzo zahvalni i opcinjeni ...

Sta znam mozda i jeste tako...

Dobra fora...

Pozdrav!
Nisam znao za ovaj podatak, da je konzumiraju samo ljudi sa "psihickim problemima"? Moja saznanja govore drugacije, no dobro...
Kao neko ko je vrlo kompetentan po ovom pitanju, a to je Grejem Henkok, kaze da "ajahuaska zahteva da se suocimo sa istinom o nama samima...".

"Mozda nisam postao bolji covek konzumacijom ajahuaske, ali je ajahuaska zasigurno ucinila da radim na tome da to budem."  G.H.

Kazu da, kada bi se svaki "vodja", (odnosno predsednici drzava, ministri, korporatisti, sefovi i citava ta birokratska gungula koja vodi ovaj svet) podvrgao konzumaciji ajahuaske (odnosno DMT-a), drustvo i planeta bi bila mnogo lepse mesto za zivot.

Takodje, vizije kroz konzumacije DMT-a su skoro uvek prozete time da egomanija nije dobra stvar, ono na cemu pociva danasnja civilizacija. Ponavljam, Grejem Henkok moze dosta toga da pojasni, dosta se od njega moze nauciti.
Ajahuaska postoji duuugo vremena, ali se tzv "moderna civilizacija" svim silama bori da ovo ostane "sa one strane".
Povracanje, koje je propratni efekat konzumiranja ajahuaske, opisuje se kao "bukvalan osecaj izbacivanja toksicne energije..." itd itd